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Meditation is an opportunity to become friends with our automatic and habitual thoughts and delve into the inner wisdom and compassion inherent in all human beings.
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1. Writer-Mindfulness Teacher-Mental Health Advocate [@shelleykarpaty]
Contact That's Life, I Swear
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Interview #1: Shelley Karpaty and the Inner World of Meditation
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[Rick Barron]: Hi everyone, I'm Rick Barron, your host, and welcome to my podcast, That's
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[Rick Barron]: Life, I Swear. Today I have the pleasure of introducing my very first guest
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[Rick Barron]: to my podcast show. My guest today is Shelly Karpaty. She is a writer, meditation
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[Rick Barron]: teacher, a parent herself. She is also a mentor for parents with neurodivergent
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[Rick Barron]: children. As a certified meditation practitioner, Shelly infiltrates everything
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[Rick Barron]: she touches. leading students at all levels to their intuitive, compassionate
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[Rick Barron]: heart center. As Shelley puts it, she will walk the walk with you, breath
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[Rick Barron]: by breath. Let's jump into this. Shelley, welcome to the show.
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[Shelley]: Thanks Rick, it's really great to be here.
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[Rick Barron]: Oh, it's great to have you as well. You know, when we were preparing for
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[Rick Barron]: this podcast, we discussed various things, but you came up with a very good suggestion,
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[Rick Barron]: and that was you like to open the conversation with a very brief guided meditation
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[Rick Barron]: exercise that would help kick off this discussion, which I think is a great
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[Rick Barron]: idea for the topic that we're gonna cover. So that said, the floor is yours,
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[Rick Barron]: Shelley, so please take it away.
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[Shelley]: Great, thank you so much. So I invite you and the listeners to, if you're driving,
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[Shelley]: don't do this,
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[Rick Barron]: Yeah.
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[Shelley]: a little caveat, but just if you're at home listening, I invite you to take a seat
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[Shelley]: and get comfortable and just slow it down and begin to notice your breath. I
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[Shelley]: invite you to close your eyes if that's comfortable for you. If not... Just
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[Shelley]: take a soft gaze two feet in front of you.
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[Shelley]: Take three cleansing deep breaths.
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[Shelley]: This notifies your body it is now time to be here in this moment.
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[Shelley]: Begin to relax and feel your scalp and your head.
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[Shelley]: relaxing your brow.
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[Shelley]: Unclench your jaw.
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[Shelley]: begin to feel your neck and your spine tall and dignified
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[Shelley]: Relaxing your shoulders down away from your ears.
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[Shelley]: Feeling your arms hang gently. Hands resting on your lap.
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[Shelley]: Feel your belly rise and fall with each breath.
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[Shelley]: as you notice your torso.
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[Shelley]: Feel how your seat is connected to your chair.
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[Shelley]: as you're pulled down by the natural weight of gravity.
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[Shelley]: I can't see it, but it's there supporting me, grounding me.
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[Shelley]: You need to breathe and relax.
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[Shelley]: as you feel your thighs and knees, calves.
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[Shelley]: the feet also connected with the earth.
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[Shelley]: pulled by the natural magic of gravity.
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[Shelley]: as you rest here in this moment with loving awareness of each breath. nourishing
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[Shelley]: you for each moment in this present moment.
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[Shelley]: And now this present.
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[Shelley]: And when you're ready, you can come back into the outward space and join us in
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[Shelley]: our conversation. So gently open your eyes and come back.
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[Rick Barron]: Wow. That's very nice. I, you know, it's not something you just kind of just
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[Rick Barron]: blurt out per se. It was a love your delivery because it really made it very
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[Rick Barron]: soothing to the ear. And it really, at least for me, it put me in a very comfortable
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[Rick Barron]: state of mind. And like I was telling myself, I was thinking like, God, there
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[Rick Barron]: was a point where, uh, almost fell asleep, it was almost too good.
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[Shelley]: Yeah
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[Rick Barron]: No, I mean, I think for the most part, you know, reciting something like that,
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[Rick Barron]: I think is very helpful for people during the course of the day when things just
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[Rick Barron]: get so out of hand that you just kind of take a moment and lower, lower nose.
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[Rick Barron]: I've been there many times, but you know, you want to just take a step back
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[Rick Barron]: and just settle down. Um, the world of meditation, um, I know people have
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[Rick Barron]: so many concepts of what it is, what it entails. But from what you have been
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[Rick Barron]: learning over time, because I know you're a certified practitioner, what
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[Rick Barron]: if you had to tell people today what meditation is, you know, how would you
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[Rick Barron]: explain that to them so they have an understanding of, hey, this isn't all
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[Rick Barron]: quack, if you will. I mean, this is something that really is very, very helpful.
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[Shelley]: Yeah, I would love to describe what meditation is for me. And the lineage that
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[Shelley]: I studied is called Vipassana, which comes directly from the Buddha and Asian ancestors.
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[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
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[Shelley]: And it was brought west by people like Jack Kornfield, who's my core teacher,
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[Shelley]: one of my core teachers, and Ram Dass and Sharon Salzberg, which I know we'll
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[Shelley]: get into later.
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[Shelley]: type of meditation brought from the Buddha is a way for us to be comfortable, become
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[Shelley]: comfortable with our incessant thoughts and thinking and egoic minds that run our day,
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[Shelley]: our daily lives, which we certainly need.
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[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
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[Shelley]: However, meditation and connecting to our present moment allows us to just soften
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[Shelley]: a little bit. It also
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[Shelley]: and mentally as you become a little bit further along, as you sit further along,
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[Shelley]: things will come up. And so this particular type of meditation, insight meditation,
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[Shelley]: is a really, it can be very therapeutic emotionally as well as physically in some ways
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[Shelley]: because the mind is very powerful.
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[Rick Barron]: Oh, sure. I mean, I'm sure there are those moments when, you know, an event
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[Rick Barron]: or even someone, you know, exasperates you, you know, well, I'm not going to let that
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[Rick Barron]: person rent space in my mind. I'm just going
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[Shelley]: Great.
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[Rick Barron]: to just mute them out if you will. And I think for the most part too, I,
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[Rick Barron]: you know, not that we're talking about this, you know, I think for some people,
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[Rick Barron]: they need to take time to take a step back and realize, you know, in the course
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[Rick Barron]: of a day, is it really worth it to just, uh... stay on something that's
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[Rick Barron]: gonna keep continuing to get me upset and
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[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
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[Rick Barron]: why? You know,
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[Shelley]: Right.
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[Rick Barron]: why let it get to you? You know, you need
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[Shelley]: Yeah.
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[Rick Barron]: to release it and I think in part what you're just describing and even the
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[Rick Barron]: walking us through the meditation uh... opening you know, you realize that there
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[Rick Barron]: are... you're going to encounter a lot of things on the outside of your life
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[Rick Barron]: that are going to just, you know, kind of punch you in the stomach emotionally.
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[Rick Barron]: But then you realize is staying in that state of anger really worth it? Why,
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[Rick Barron]: you know, you have to find a way to get yourself out of that bubble. Um,
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[Rick Barron]: what was the biggest thing that really caught your attention to say the world
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[Rick Barron]: of meditation, understanding how this works, there's an area I think I can
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[Rick Barron]: really dive into and it's going to help me not only master this craft if you
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[Rick Barron]: will, but in turn to help others
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[Shelley]: Yeah,
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[Rick Barron]: in turn.
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[Shelley]: yeah, I think what I realized was that... that it was something that when I realized
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[Shelley]: that my teachers would say like everything is impermanent, everything is going to change
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[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
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[Shelley]: from your emotions in that moment, like I just wanted to address like what you
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[Shelley]: were talking about and you know when somebody comes at you and you know or get have
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[Shelley]: such a visceral reaction feeling that the more that we can understand what's
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[Shelley]: happening inside
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[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
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[Shelley]: the better response we can we can have to them instead of reacting. So
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[Rick Barron]: Right.
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[Shelley]: we all have these visceral reactions that are basically embodied in our past. So
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[Shelley]: we're bringing all of our past experiences, like as human beings, we're taught to be in
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[Shelley]: the left side of our brain, the fight or flight part of our brain, constantly to
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[Shelley]: protect
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[Rick Barron]: Yes
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[Shelley]: ourselves. And so what happens is when we realize that, oh, that's just my egoic,
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[Shelley]: like, you know, brain that's trying to protect myself because of my past experiences,
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[Shelley]: guess what? So is the other person.
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[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
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[Shelley]: So how, if we're both coming at this, you know, experience and interaction with all
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[Shelley]: of our past experiences and our hurts and our fears, then we're not going to get
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[Shelley]: anywhere if we can't fully be present and see the other person for what they're trying
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[Shelley]: to You know, people always say, oh, it has nothing to do with you. The way people
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[Shelley]: treat you has nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with them. It
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[Shelley]: doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. However, the meditation can help us become more comfortable
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[Shelley]: with our inner selves and our inner, and creates more love for ourselves so that
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[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
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[Shelley]: we can, those things can roll off of us a lot easier and we can have. more understanding
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[Shelley]: for others when they're perhaps not treating us the way that they'd like, we'd
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[Shelley]: like to be treated. And that doesn't
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[Rick Barron]: No.
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[Shelley]: mean not having interactions and conversations about it,
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[Rick Barron]: Hahaha
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[Shelley]: but there's a way to do it that is more thoughtful than outbursts and anger, so
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[Rick Barron]: Yeah,
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[Shelley]: to
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[Rick Barron]: no, those
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[Shelley]: speak.
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[Rick Barron]: are all very, very good points. And that kind of takes me back to when I was,
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[Rick Barron]: you know, before I retired and was working in Silicon Valley, I was in a meeting
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[Rick Barron]: and this one person just started yelling at this person. And the person they
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[Rick Barron]: were yelling at didn't say a word. It just remained very calm. And as a
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[Rick Barron]: person who was doing the yelling, the tone and the pitch started to come down.
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[Rick Barron]: as
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[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
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[Rick Barron]: if this person was letting their silence not let this person get them disrupted.
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[Shelley]: Mm.
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[Rick Barron]: And eventually they explained why they were upset. And the person said, well,
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[Rick Barron]: why didn't you just tell me that? You know, you didn't have to go through all
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[Rick Barron]: of this. But
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[Shelley]: Right.
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[Rick Barron]: let me explain to you why these events happened the way they did. And after
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[Rick Barron]: it was explained, well, the person who was yelling, didn't really have much to
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[Rick Barron]: say. It was almost they felt like they were embarrassed, if you will.
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[Shelley]: Yeah.
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[Rick Barron]: So I think to your point, you know, you have to let the person maybe just
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[Rick Barron]: say what they want, but then try to understand what their feelings are.
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[Rick Barron]: And, you know, in most cases, you don't know what a person's life has been
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[Shelley]: bright.
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[Rick Barron]: prior to you meeting them. So sometimes they have cultivated various emotions
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[Rick Barron]: inside of them that they... carry with them throughout their lives.
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[Shelley]: Exactly. And
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[Rick Barron]: But...
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[Shelley]: bringing that person wanted to in that meeting, you
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[Rick Barron]: Uh-huh.
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[Shelley]: know, the person that was yelling was probably just, they're driven by their,
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[Shelley]: their minds and they weren't connected to their hearts. And what the other person
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[Shelley]: did was create that safe space to be like, look, I'm just going to, I'm just
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[Rick Barron]: Exactly.
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[Shelley]: going to hold space for you until you're ready to get to your heart. Because
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[Shelley]: right now, you're just talking from your head. And that's
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[Rick Barron]: Yeah.
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[Shelley]: really hard to do in business because, you know, it's all about results and ROI. So
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[Shelley]: it's very hard for people to realize like hey if we can all just if we can
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[Shelley]: get in our heart space that's where the truth lies not
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[Rick Barron]: Sure.
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[Shelley]: always necessarily in our in our heads. Yeah sure
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[Rick Barron]: Oh.
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[Shelley]: the truth is that we want to get we want to get you know to point Z but in order
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[Shelley]: to get there if we want other if we want to have support of others and helping
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[Shelley]: us get there you have to leave with heart and you'll get a lot fat and you'll get
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[Shelley]: there a lot faster and a lot easier.
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[Rick Barron]: Oh yeah, absolutely. I was kind of curious. You have done a lot. Just looking
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[Rick Barron]: at your website and your blog and to the audience I would say too, at the
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[Rick Barron]: conclusion of this podcast, I'm going to provide links to Shelly's website
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[Rick Barron]: and blog post and please I invite you to visit it. I have gone through it various
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[Rick Barron]: times and her website's beautiful by the way.
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[Shelley]: Thanks.
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[Rick Barron]: much better than mine.
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[Shelley]: Ha ha ha.
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[Rick Barron]: No, seriously, it's well done, but please do so. I guess my question is do
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[Rick Barron]: you have a core audience that you address or does it matter?
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[Shelley]: Yeah, that's a great question. Well, it depends on what I'm doing. So, you know,
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[Shelley]: when I'm writing, when I'm writing,
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[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
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[Shelley]: I often write about my experiences with meditation and my interactions with people
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[Shelley]: or just part of it, I share, I get very vulnerable and share my journey on this
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[Shelley]: path. When I'm teaching meditation, for instance, it's people of all levels. When
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[Shelley]: I'm out in the field in person, I go over to like... special spas where the guests
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[Shelley]: come and participate in an hour
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[Rick Barron]: Right.
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[Shelley]: sitting. But when I'm working with parents, you know, that's a little bit different
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[Shelley]: as well, but I treat every meditation with the audience in mind and what level they
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[Shelley]: feel comfortable with and how long we're going to work together. So
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[Rick Barron]: Ah, good point.
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[Shelley]: you know, we can get deeper. So, I can lead like for instance that type of meditation
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[Shelley]: that I just led. We could have just sat and done a body scan for a good 30 minutes
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[Shelley]: I could have led us through
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[Rick Barron]: Wow.
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[Shelley]: a body scan for 30 minutes to get us into like very deep relaxation and presence.
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[Rick Barron]: So, do you deal with large groups or do you deal with individuals or is it a
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[Rick Barron]: combination of both?
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[Shelley]: Yeah, it's a combination of both. Absolutely. Yeah, I've gone to I've so like
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[Shelley]: as with as part of my mental health advocacy, I've, I've guided a room full of,
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[Shelley]: I mean, there must have been 150 people in one room,
00:17:18,706 --> 00:17:19,057
[Rick Barron]: Wow.
00:17:19,729 --> 00:17:24,251
[Shelley]: where I guided us in a meditation, and then that was in person. And then when
00:17:24,291 --> 00:17:30,674
[Shelley]: I'm teaching at the spa, for instance, you know, it's anywhere between two to 12 students.
00:17:31,164 --> 00:17:31,332
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:17:31,655 --> 00:17:36,639
[Shelley]: So, it's more intimate and you can talk. more about it afterwards and explore
00:17:36,719 --> 00:17:44,829
[Shelley]: their experiences. And then online when I'm working with parents, it's more like
00:17:45,349 --> 00:17:50,415
[Shelley]: a smaller intimate group so we can again, also talk about our experiences with
00:17:50,435 --> 00:17:51,437
[Shelley]: how we're feeling.
00:17:52,117 --> 00:17:58,922
[Rick Barron]: Okay. With the groups and the individuals that you've dealt with, and I guess
00:17:58,962 --> 00:18:05,989
[Rick Barron]: without, you know, sharing any names, so to speak, have you ever had an instance
00:18:06,029 --> 00:18:13,375
[Rick Barron]: with a person, for example, that through your guidance and helping them understand
00:18:13,395 --> 00:18:20,305
[Rick Barron]: their inner self, that at the end they said, you know, what you did. was
00:18:20,385 --> 00:18:23,552
[Rick Barron]: so helpful for me. I mean, have you ever had one of those moments where you
00:18:23,593 --> 00:18:26,920
[Rick Barron]: thought, am I really reaching this person? All of a sudden you find out,
00:18:27,201 --> 00:18:30,388
[Rick Barron]: wow, it worked. It helped them.
00:18:31,082 --> 00:18:36,824
[Shelley]: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if the student is willing to be relaxed and let me
00:18:36,984 --> 00:18:40,666
[Shelley]: guide them, and if they approach it with honesty
00:18:41,148 --> 00:18:41,295
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:18:41,606 --> 00:18:44,808
[Shelley]: with themselves, then they'll have a better experience. But I've definitely had
00:18:44,848 --> 00:18:48,690
[Shelley]: people where they're like, I just, I'm here because I can't get my mind to stop.
00:18:48,710 --> 00:18:51,151
[Shelley]: That's the most common thing that people
00:18:50,973 --> 00:18:51,246
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:18:51,171 --> 00:18:56,173
[Shelley]: come like, I can't get my mind to turn off. And that's one of the most, you know,
00:18:56,213 --> 00:19:02,557
[Shelley]: misconceptions of meditation is that, is it's just it's to blank out your mind and
00:19:02,577 --> 00:19:03,917
[Shelley]: that's not what it's
00:19:03,995 --> 00:19:04,117
[Rick Barron]: Ah.
00:19:04,078 --> 00:19:10,642
[Shelley]: about. And so, you know, sometimes I'll see students like shifting and moving
00:19:10,662 --> 00:19:15,305
[Shelley]: around and I think, oh no, it's not getting through and they're very uncomfortable,
00:19:15,345 --> 00:19:18,367
[Shelley]: but that's part of the process. It's okay to
00:19:18,375 --> 00:19:18,669
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:19:18,407 --> 00:19:23,370
[Shelley]: be uncomfortable. That's the point. It's to reach the edge of being uncomfortable
00:19:23,451 --> 00:19:29,354
[Shelley]: and then saying like, oh, it's okay. Like, and just re like telling yourself that
00:19:29,374 --> 00:19:32,163
[Shelley]: it's okay to be uncomfortable. And comfortable and that you're
00:19:31,965 --> 00:19:33,106
[Rick Barron]: Do
00:19:32,203 --> 00:19:32,646
[Shelley]: safe.
00:19:33,126 --> 00:19:38,730
[Rick Barron]: you ever tell these people beforehand that as we go through this exercise, you might
00:19:38,830 --> 00:19:41,132
[Rick Barron]: feel that emotion, feeling uncomfortable?
00:19:41,738 --> 00:19:48,141
[Shelley]: Yeah, absolutely. And so, what I do with that is I employ, so some of the most
00:19:48,201 --> 00:19:52,923
[Shelley]: common things that happen for people when they're meditating is
00:19:53,009 --> 00:19:55,267
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:19:53,343 --> 00:19:55,784
[Shelley]: analyzing. So, we'll
00:19:55,348 --> 00:19:55,388
[Rick Barron]: Mm.
00:19:55,824 --> 00:20:00,026
[Shelley]: sit there and our thoughts are this is what is all common among all humans. Well,
00:20:00,366 --> 00:20:04,088
[Shelley]: if we're going to close our eyes, we're going to analyze, we're going to plan,
00:20:04,528 --> 00:20:08,490
[Shelley]: we're going to catastrophize for the future, we're going to
00:20:11,912 --> 00:20:19,777
[Shelley]: to be analytical, we're going to be judgmental, and so what I do is I name all
00:20:19,817 --> 00:20:25,741
[Shelley]: of those common things and people often at the end will say, how did you know
00:20:25,841 --> 00:20:32,786
[Shelley]: I was judging? How did you know I was analyzing? And like just naming it releases
00:20:32,866 --> 00:20:35,948
[Shelley]: its tight grip over our mind because
00:20:35,847 --> 00:20:36,141
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:20:36,008 --> 00:20:38,369
[Shelley]: it will evolve. Like so there's a
00:20:41,552 --> 00:20:45,834
[Shelley]: quiet, I'll say, okay, where is your mind gone? Is it
00:20:45,843 --> 00:20:46,116
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:20:45,954 --> 00:20:52,799
[Shelley]: analyzing? Put analyzing on a leaf. Imagine analyzing, putting it on the leaf and
00:20:52,819 --> 00:20:55,100
[Shelley]: letting it float down the river. Just let
00:20:55,078 --> 00:20:55,267
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:20:55,140 --> 00:21:01,484
[Shelley]: it goes away. And then we move through analyzing. And then we gently move through
00:21:01,525 --> 00:21:06,768
[Shelley]: planning. Are you planning? Has your mind moved to planning? Put planning on a leaf
00:21:07,028 --> 00:21:07,268
[Shelley]: and let
00:21:07,177 --> 00:21:09,119
[Rick Barron]: Yeah.
00:21:07,308 --> 00:21:08,829
[Shelley]: it floats down the river.
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:14,708
[Rick Barron]: What could be the reason for why people are afraid to release, if you will?
00:21:14,728 --> 00:21:18,353
[Rick Barron]: Like, you know, just let go of that. Do you ever have someone who just, you
00:21:18,373 --> 00:21:20,196
[Rick Barron]: know, I'm trying but I just can't let it go?
00:21:20,958 --> 00:21:25,908
[Shelley]: Yeah, absolutely. It takes time. You have to be patient with yourself. And,
00:21:25,630 --> 00:21:25,924
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:21:26,088 --> 00:21:30,517
[Shelley]: you know, I think people are really
afraid for those deep emotions to come up.
00:21:31,273 --> 00:21:37,056
[Rick Barron]: I think people, I guess, when they come to you, they're wanting instant gratification,
00:21:37,076 --> 00:21:42,420
[Rick Barron]: like, oh, good, I'm cured now, bye. Yeah,
00:21:39,726 --> 00:21:42,846
[Shelley]: Well, that's American the American way, right?
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:42,640
[Rick Barron]: I know.
00:21:42,846 --> 00:21:48,274
[Shelley]: We all want something for nothing, so...
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
00:21:46,261 --> 00:21:53,985
[Rick Barron]: Oh, no, no. You know, I was, as I was doing some research on you, I came
00:21:54,025 --> 00:21:58,828
[Rick Barron]: across where you created a webinar during the COVID pandemic.
00:21:59,406 --> 00:21:59,613
[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
00:21:59,689 --> 00:22:06,613
[Rick Barron]: And it was called Meditation Journaling, using the power of Enneagram.
00:22:07,063 --> 00:22:07,270
[Shelley]: year.
00:22:07,594 --> 00:22:12,476
[Rick Barron]: What drove you to create this webinar and what is Enneagram?
00:22:12,970 --> 00:22:15,091
[Shelley]: Yeah, oh, it's my favorite. That's one of my
00:22:15,022 --> 00:22:15,347
[Rick Barron]: ha ha
00:22:15,131 --> 00:22:22,354
[Shelley]: favorite things. So yeah, so before the pandemic, I became certified Enneagram
00:22:22,394 --> 00:22:29,137
[Shelley]: coach. And the Enneagram is an ancient tool. It's a personality system that came way
00:22:29,157 --> 00:22:32,699
[Shelley]: before Myers-Briggs, which many people will be familiar with.
00:22:33,025 --> 00:22:33,332
[Rick Barron]: Oh yes.
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:38,762
[Shelley]: It came, yeah, it was way before that. It's actually is derived from the Greek.
00:22:39,282 --> 00:22:40,602
[Shelley]: Ennea means nine.
00:22:43,805 --> 00:22:48,290
[Shelley]: on the Enneagram. There are nine main personality types that we have a little
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:53,837
[Shelley]: bit of all of them in our personalities, but we have one dominant character, their characteristics
00:22:53,857 --> 00:22:55,660
[Shelley]: that make up who we are. And
00:22:55,631 --> 00:22:55,876
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:22:55,740 --> 00:23:03,403
[Shelley]: so, and so when we find out who we are, and characteristics. Often times it can
00:23:03,443 --> 00:23:08,305
[Shelley]: be a little bit nerve-ending because we're like, oh, because it exposes us
00:23:08,979 --> 00:23:09,231
[Rick Barron]: Sure.
00:23:09,466 --> 00:23:14,868
[Shelley]: with things that we might not be comfortable with. So, I created this class that
00:23:15,769 --> 00:23:22,612
[Shelley]: melds all of them together. So once the students find out what their types are,
00:23:24,753 --> 00:23:25,773
[Shelley]: then we meditate on
00:23:30,429 --> 00:23:30,674
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:23:30,796 --> 00:23:38,380
[Shelley]: journaling prompts. So, for instance the two on the enneagram is also known as the
00:23:38,420 --> 00:23:45,664
[Shelley]: helper and so with the helper I would find words that might be you know might be
00:23:45,704 --> 00:23:52,867
[Shelley]: triggering for that person and I would have them just do some free writing based
00:23:52,907 --> 00:23:54,668
[Shelley]: on those four or five words that go
00:23:54,661 --> 00:23:56,362
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:23:54,688 --> 00:23:56,009
[Shelley]: with the helper. Yeah.
00:23:56,442 --> 00:24:01,605
[Rick Barron]: Now you, you did this during COVID, which is like when COVID was at its
00:24:01,906 --> 00:24:03,046
[Rick Barron]: high pitch or
00:24:03,018 --> 00:24:04,107
[Shelley]: Yeah, yeah, it was
00:24:04,047 --> 00:24:04,207
[Rick Barron]: that
00:24:04,127 --> 00:24:04,308
[Shelley]: at the
00:24:04,267 --> 00:24:04,507
[Rick Barron]: had,
00:24:04,349 --> 00:24:04,873
[Shelley]: beginning.
00:24:05,548 --> 00:24:13,033
[Rick Barron]: yeah, I mean that had to bring in a lot of high emotions because what everyone
00:24:13,073 --> 00:24:14,674
[Rick Barron]: was going through, not
00:24:14,658 --> 00:24:15,008
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:24:14,734 --> 00:24:20,118
[Rick Barron]: knowing why is this happening? When's it going to end? And I'm sure some people
00:24:20,138 --> 00:24:22,160
[Rick Barron]: were wondering, am I going to survive all this?
00:24:22,646 --> 00:24:22,951
[Shelley]: Right.
00:24:23,020 --> 00:24:29,160
[Rick Barron]: So, could you share with us maybe some of the moments you had with some of these
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:35,390
[Rick Barron]: people as, you know, how do I cope with what is happening that
00:24:35,403 --> 00:24:35,710
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:24:35,470 --> 00:24:39,196
[Rick Barron]: I can at least maintain my sanity, if you will?
00:24:39,646 --> 00:24:43,567
[Shelley]: Right, well I think people were just really happy to be together in that
00:24:43,548 --> 00:24:43,716
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:24:43,607 --> 00:24:47,489
[Shelley]: space and because they didn't know one another and because it was on Zoom, it
00:24:47,509 --> 00:24:51,391
[Shelley]: was really challenging for people to feel safe enough to say like, hey, this
00:24:51,411 --> 00:24:55,433
[Shelley]: is coming up for me. Because it's, you know, while it's kind of like we became
00:24:55,493 --> 00:24:58,674
[Shelley]: our own therapists, you know, with our writing.
00:24:59,186 --> 00:24:59,291
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:24:59,235 --> 00:25:04,317
[Shelley]: And so we didn't really, people didn't really share like what was coming up for them
00:25:04,337 --> 00:25:08,499
[Shelley]: because they didn't know one another. Now, if this was, if this was an in-person,
00:25:08,619 --> 00:25:11,982
[Shelley]: you know, long session that I was running with a small
00:25:11,825 --> 00:25:12,009
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:25:12,002 --> 00:25:17,908
[Shelley]: group of women or men or combined who knew one another, then I think it would
00:25:17,928 --> 00:25:22,392
[Shelley]: have been a little bit different. But it is a personal excavation journey.
00:25:22,757 --> 00:25:29,703
[Rick Barron]: Right. But what did you learn about yourself when you were doing this webinar?
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:30,667
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:25:30,364 --> 00:25:38,151
[Rick Barron]: What did you find that as a result of doing this, you learned other aspects about
00:25:38,211 --> 00:25:43,716
[Rick Barron]: your personality or how you work in this world of meditation?
00:25:44,362 --> 00:25:50,164
[Shelley]: Well, I think the universal theme throughout all of it is that everybody wants
00:25:50,224 --> 00:25:51,385
[Shelley]: to be seen
00:25:51,966 --> 00:25:52,239
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:25:52,065 --> 00:25:53,906
[Shelley]: and heard and validated.
00:25:54,632 --> 00:25:54,863
[Rick Barron]: Hmm.
00:25:55,707 --> 00:26:03,470
[Shelley]: And while there may be certain characteristics that come up in each of these types that might
00:26:03,490 --> 00:26:11,494
[Shelley]: be unnerving to realize, it doesn't mean that it's set in stone. And it doesn't
00:26:11,514 --> 00:26:14,940
[Shelley]: mean that you can't work with it and it's not malleable. It's just
00:26:14,767 --> 00:26:15,055
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,314
[Shelley]: taking the willingness to look at it.
00:26:18,477 --> 00:26:23,940
[Rick Barron]: Yeah, I think you said the word validation. I think that's what people want
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,941
[Rick Barron]: today. You know, they want to say, hey, I'm okay. And everything is hunky
00:26:26,961 --> 00:26:32,925
[Rick Barron]: dory. And I think for many people, they're willing to say, look, I came to you
00:26:32,965 --> 00:26:39,929
[Rick Barron]: for help. So let's have a constructive discussion. And then you have some people who
00:26:40,129 --> 00:26:44,371
[Rick Barron]: they want to come, but they're just, this won't open up to you. And that,
00:26:44,279 --> 00:26:44,468
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:26:44,391 --> 00:26:48,594
[Rick Barron]: have you ever had those instances where like, You know, I can only go so far
00:26:48,614 --> 00:26:53,371
[Rick Barron]: with this person, but they're just not wanting to step out of their zone,
00:26:53,391 --> 00:26:53,832
[Rick Barron]: if you will.
00:26:54,582 --> 00:26:59,244
[Shelley]: Yeah, I mean that often happens when I'm just teaching somebody just for
00:26:59,089 --> 00:26:59,273
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:26:59,264 --> 00:27:06,067
[Shelley]: the day, like at the spa. I can tell that they couldn't get there and every sitting
00:27:06,127 --> 00:27:13,790
[Shelley]: is different. And I have to say, I'm not a therapist, so I have to support them
00:27:13,851 --> 00:27:18,493
[Shelley]: and I like to reframe questions that they might have because
00:27:18,313 --> 00:27:18,558
[Rick Barron]: Sure.
00:27:18,533 --> 00:27:24,496
[Shelley]: everybody actually has the answers within themselves. So really it's about answers.
00:27:24,496 --> 00:27:28,502
[Shelley]: answering people's questions with their own questions so that they can get to
00:27:28,542 --> 00:27:29,944
[Shelley]: their own answer.
00:27:29,805 --> 00:27:35,888
[Rick Barron]: Right. Now on your website, excuse me, you called out that you're a certified
00:27:36,509 --> 00:27:41,592
[Rick Barron]: meditation practitioner. How did you get into getting that certification?
00:27:41,632 --> 00:27:45,394
[Rick Barron]: What was involved in the time duration and just
00:27:45,367 --> 00:27:45,678
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:27:45,434 --> 00:27:48,376
[Rick Barron]: having to go through all this exercise to get to the point of where you are
00:27:48,416 --> 00:27:48,696
[Rick Barron]: today?
00:27:49,258 --> 00:27:54,120
[Shelley]: Yeah, well it was, so I knew the teachers because I had sat with them before
00:27:54,180 --> 00:27:55,901
[Shelley]: Jack Kornfield. I had sat with him
00:27:55,869 --> 00:27:56,079
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:27:55,921 --> 00:28:04,365
[Shelley]: in person on Maui where I attended various Ram Dass meditation retreats with some
00:28:04,391 --> 00:28:04,622
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:28:04,545 --> 00:28:11,148
[Shelley]: really amazing teachers. And so I decided I would enroll with Jack's program
00:28:11,168 --> 00:28:16,210
[Shelley]: which was part of Sounds True, which is a spiritual publishing house. So, Jack Kornfield
00:28:16,230 --> 00:28:21,893
[Shelley]: and Tar Brock are the main teachers. It was an application process so I had to write
00:28:21,953 --> 00:28:28,218
[Shelley]: essays, I had to get references, I had to be accepted into the program and it
00:28:28,238 --> 00:28:30,239
[Shelley]: was about 10 hours a week
00:28:31,045 --> 00:28:31,171
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:38,705
[Shelley]: with an online cohort, some live, some recordings, experiences and it was a really
00:28:38,865 --> 00:28:45,909
[Shelley]: beautiful experience over the two years. I also had to create classes and like
00:28:45,929 --> 00:28:45,949
[Shelley]: a
00:28:49,252 --> 00:28:51,494
[Shelley]: in each practicum that
00:28:51,528 --> 00:28:51,780
[Rick Barron]: Wow.
00:28:51,554 --> 00:28:58,182
[Shelley]: I did. And yeah, and then I had to do somewhat of a test. I had a mentor that
00:28:58,222 --> 00:29:01,086
[Shelley]: had to walk me through tests and things like that. So
00:29:00,973 --> 00:29:01,836
[Rick Barron]: Yeah, so this wasn't
00:29:01,627 --> 00:29:02,007
[Shelley]: yeah.
00:29:01,856 --> 00:29:03,603
[Rick Barron]: a walk in the park, was it? It
00:29:03,609 --> 00:29:03,929
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:29:03,623 --> 00:29:06,152
[Rick Barron]: was, yeah, a lot of effort to put into this. That's great.
00:29:05,912 --> 00:29:06,973
[Shelley]: It was. Yeah.
00:29:09,877 --> 00:29:13,818
[Rick Barron]: As I was doing my research, I found out that, and maybe you've touched on
00:29:13,838 --> 00:29:18,761
[Rick Barron]: this already, so excuse me if I'm repeating myself, that meditation can be
00:29:18,861 --> 00:29:22,082
[Rick Barron]: used as a tool for personal growth
00:29:22,570 --> 00:29:22,851
[Shelley]: Yes.
00:29:22,802 --> 00:29:27,544
[Rick Barron]: and self-discovery. What does that mean? That's...
00:29:27,690 --> 00:29:34,734
[Shelley]: Yeah, well, I think as you get further along in your, in the insight meditation path,
00:29:34,781 --> 00:29:34,991
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:29:35,994 --> 00:29:44,399
[Shelley]: like I was saying earlier about like identifying your thoughts into, like identifying
00:29:44,419 --> 00:29:50,323
[Shelley]: those thoughts, whether they're analyzing or planning, or even, you know, as you get
00:29:50,383 --> 00:29:56,767
[Shelley]: quieter, and if you do need to go through... You need to go through something
00:29:56,807 --> 00:30:04,575
[Shelley]: that's bothering you. The quieter you become, the more you can hear. Because
00:30:05,316 --> 00:30:10,381
[Shelley]: the quieter you become, you can hear what your heart has to say instead of your
00:30:10,641 --> 00:30:11,862
[Shelley]: egoic mind, which
00:30:11,900 --> 00:30:12,123
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:30:11,943 --> 00:30:14,225
[Shelley]: is protecting you all the time.
00:30:15,409 --> 00:30:21,210
[Rick Barron]: That's interesting. I notice you keep going back, worse to the effect, you
00:30:21,230 --> 00:30:24,552
[Rick Barron]: know, like what Lachie just said, you know, the quieter you get, the more you
00:30:24,592 --> 00:30:32,754
[Rick Barron]: listen to your heart and not your mind. Is it the heart because it's more
00:30:32,794 --> 00:30:35,115
[Rick Barron]: of emotional state of mind that
00:30:34,731 --> 00:30:35,016
[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
00:30:35,475 --> 00:30:39,296
[Rick Barron]: you want to go in that direction rather than, well, this is what I'm thinking,
00:30:39,556 --> 00:30:39,716
[Rick Barron]: you know.
00:30:40,246 --> 00:30:44,488
[Shelley]: Yeah, absolutely. Like in the Enneagram, for instance, we have three, what's called
00:30:44,528 --> 00:30:46,148
[Shelley]: three centers of intelligence,
00:30:46,672 --> 00:30:46,798
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:30:46,869 --> 00:30:51,951
[Shelley]: the head, the heart, and the gut. And so when we meditate, we're able to connect
00:30:51,991 --> 00:30:56,973
[Shelley]: those three centers of intelligence a lot easier and faster. And
00:30:56,914 --> 00:30:57,124
[Rick Barron]: Okay.
00:30:57,634 --> 00:31:03,937
[Shelley]: So the more we do that, the higher intelligence we have with responding to our
00:31:03,977 --> 00:31:10,059
[Shelley]: lives, and in turn opening up, you know, time, some things that happen for me
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,322
[Shelley]: I meditate every day. Time goes by slower.
00:31:13,947 --> 00:31:14,152
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:31:14,562 --> 00:31:20,086
[Shelley]: It's pretty amazing. I can accomplish so much more. My relationships have gotten
00:31:20,126 --> 00:31:25,590
[Shelley]: better in my interactions with people because I'm slowing down. I'm not thinking
00:31:25,630 --> 00:31:28,452
[Shelley]: about what am I gonna say in response to that
00:31:28,472 --> 00:31:28,719
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:31:28,492 --> 00:31:34,876
[Shelley]: person? I'm thinking I'm really listening so I can hear, employing this active listening
00:31:35,236 --> 00:31:40,820
[Shelley]: is only available to us if we understand how to actively listen to ourselves. You know
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:47,404
[Shelley]: the body they say you know the body has a memory and so as we're excavating All
00:31:47,444 --> 00:31:53,769
[Shelley]: of these memories that and thoughts that come up You know we realize after time
00:31:54,249 --> 00:32:00,993
[Shelley]: they change and evolve and You know we know that time you know I know that time
00:32:01,034 --> 00:32:07,478
[Shelley]: doesn't time can heal It doesn't mean we have to like forget about it, but time
00:32:07,518 --> 00:32:19,486
[Shelley]: does heal and some pain, however it's about understanding that and not letting
00:32:19,526 --> 00:32:24,209
[Shelley]: it sit with us in every present moment, like being defensive.
00:32:23,637 --> 00:32:30,620
[Rick Barron]: Oh, absolutely. You know, like when I lost my parents, my mother went before
00:32:30,660 --> 00:32:37,284
[Rick Barron]: my father and my wife and I were taking care of both of them in the final years.
00:32:38,384 --> 00:32:45,448
[Rick Barron]: And oddly enough for me, when my mother passed away, I kind of go into automatic
00:32:45,528 --> 00:32:50,311
[Rick Barron]: mode of, okay, have to deal with the burial, have to deal with taking care of
00:32:50,331 --> 00:32:55,818
[Rick Barron]: my dad, all that. I did the same thing when my father passed away.
00:32:56,414 --> 00:32:56,698
[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
00:32:56,419 --> 00:33:04,084
[Rick Barron]: And I had to deal with so much with their, all of their belongings and the
00:33:04,144 --> 00:33:12,050
[Rick Barron]: family. But long story short, I held everything in. And I guess without even
00:33:12,110 --> 00:33:14,852
[Rick Barron]: realizing it, I wasn't letting my emotions come out.
00:33:15,338 --> 00:33:15,561
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:33:15,772 --> 00:33:23,137
[Rick Barron]: So it was maybe two weeks after we had buried my father. I'm sitting here in
00:33:23,478 --> 00:33:28,461
[Rick Barron]: my den and I'm listening to this piece of music that I had heard before and
00:33:28,481 --> 00:33:33,284
[Rick Barron]: I can't remember the name of the song, but when I heard it, it just, all
00:33:33,304 --> 00:33:36,427
[Rick Barron]: of a sudden it just hit me and I broke down crying. I mean, I'm not ashamed
00:33:36,447 --> 00:33:38,488
[Rick Barron]: to admit it, I actually fell to the floor and cried.
00:33:38,378 --> 00:33:39,250
[Shelley]: Yeah, yeah.
00:33:39,329 --> 00:33:42,391
[Rick Barron]: But I think it's one of those moments where you just, like you say, you have
00:33:42,411 --> 00:33:47,614
[Rick Barron]: to listen to your heart and time will heal all wounds. You just don't know when
00:33:47,654 --> 00:33:48,615
[Rick Barron]: it's going to happen.
00:33:49,058 --> 00:33:49,328
[Shelley]: brain.
00:33:49,435 --> 00:33:53,312
[Rick Barron]: And when that door opens up. you kind of cleanse yourself if you will.
00:33:54,238 --> 00:33:59,640
[Shelley]: Yeah, I think it evolves and thanks for sharing that story that is really beautiful
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:07,344
[Shelley]: and you know grief is something that we all experience as human beings and that
00:34:07,905 --> 00:34:13,555
[Shelley]: we all. experience grief however differently. We
00:34:13,596 --> 00:34:13,848
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:34:13,655 --> 00:34:20,018
[Shelley]: experience grief in our own personal way and you know grief is something that is
00:34:20,058 --> 00:34:27,402
[Shelley]: um it evolves and it doesn't like it doesn't necessarily even go away um it expands
00:34:27,442 --> 00:34:33,104
[Shelley]: and contracts and it comes up sometimes it's like it's it might be a big shape like
00:34:33,164 --> 00:34:37,887
[Shelley]: a like a beach ball and then the next day it might feel small like a you know
00:34:38,067 --> 00:34:40,768
[Shelley]: like a lacrosse ball or something. like that. So
00:34:40,690 --> 00:34:41,026
[Rick Barron]: right.
00:34:41,249 --> 00:34:48,754
[Shelley]: it's just we have we have as human beings we have all of these common emotions
00:34:49,774 --> 00:34:57,960
[Shelley]: that we once we begin to recognize we can allow them to flow a lot easier instead
00:34:57,980 --> 00:35:01,002
[Shelley]: of like pushing that because you were you were holding it together like to be
00:35:01,042 --> 00:35:03,764
[Shelley]: like I got to get this stuff done I have to have to take care of
00:35:03,727 --> 00:35:04,015
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:35:03,784 --> 00:35:06,485
[Shelley]: all these things so you will you know you hold it together
00:35:09,888 --> 00:35:14,594
[Shelley]: is like holding on like with this like tight grip and this is what our brains
00:35:14,614 --> 00:35:20,702
[Shelley]: do we hold on so tight to wait the way things are supposed to be and meditation
00:35:20,742 --> 00:35:23,285
[Shelley]: allows us to release that tight grip
00:35:23,730 --> 00:35:24,101
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:35:24,306 --> 00:35:26,009
[Shelley]: of our lives and our emotions
00:35:26,561 --> 00:35:29,264
[Rick Barron]: Oh yeah, I can tell you I've been there.
00:35:29,931 --> 00:35:30,236
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:35:31,766 --> 00:35:37,172
[Rick Barron]: I think you touched on it a little bit, but what are some of the, like the top
00:35:37,212 --> 00:35:41,236
[Rick Barron]: three, if you will, misconceptions about meditation?
00:35:42,218 --> 00:35:45,921
[Shelley]: Yeah, that it's about getting a blank mind, right?
00:35:45,918 --> 00:35:46,019
[Rick Barron]: Yeah
00:35:46,102 --> 00:35:50,947
[Shelley]: That you're supposed to like just blank out. That there is such a thing as enlightenment,
00:35:51,007 --> 00:35:51,908
[Shelley]: that there's something to
00:35:51,940 --> 00:35:52,250
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:35:51,988 --> 00:35:58,815
[Shelley]: achieve. There's nothing to achieve, except for more love and compassion for yourself.
00:36:00,096 --> 00:36:08,727
[Shelley]: And let's see, what would the third one be? that you can't do it. Everybody can
00:36:08,621 --> 00:36:08,721
[Rick Barron]: Oh
00:36:08,767 --> 00:36:08,907
[Shelley]: do
00:36:08,781 --> 00:36:09,101
[Rick Barron]: really?
00:36:08,987 --> 00:36:10,348
[Shelley]: it. Everybody
00:36:10,123 --> 00:36:10,644
[Rick Barron]: Wow.
00:36:10,388 --> 00:36:11,889
[Shelley]: can do it. Yeah.
00:36:12,647 --> 00:36:15,171
[Rick Barron]: I'm surprised. I didn't think
00:36:15,091 --> 00:36:15,331
[Shelley]: People
00:36:15,191 --> 00:36:15,452
[Rick Barron]: that would
00:36:15,371 --> 00:36:15,591
[Shelley]: are like,
00:36:15,492 --> 00:36:15,612
[Rick Barron]: be...
00:36:15,671 --> 00:36:17,472
[Shelley]: oh, I just can't do it. It's not true.
00:36:18,377 --> 00:36:24,122
[Rick Barron]: Why is it because they don't believe that it is something that is, hey,
00:36:24,322 --> 00:36:28,386
[Rick Barron]: we have a foundation here. This, if you just listen and listen to your heart,
00:36:28,406 --> 00:36:33,890
[Rick Barron]: as you say, this can help you, but you still don't, wow, that's interesting.
00:36:34,462 --> 00:36:35,862
[Shelley]: It's a practice, that's
00:36:35,872 --> 00:36:36,092
[Rick Barron]: Yeah.
00:36:35,902 --> 00:36:40,965
[Shelley]: the thing. I'm not, I can't say that I'm good at it because it's a practice. Some
00:36:41,005 --> 00:36:46,887
[Shelley]: days my practice is terrible and my mind just keeps, it's incessantly going
00:36:46,907 --> 00:36:47,488
[Shelley]: around.
00:36:48,125 --> 00:36:48,440
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:36:48,408 --> 00:36:55,331
[Shelley]: But sometimes you have to mix it up. So like this summer, I love being outdoors.
00:36:55,471 --> 00:37:01,754
[Shelley]: Sometimes it's, instead of sitting quietly with my mind, with my eyes closed in
00:37:01,794 --> 00:37:02,295
[Shelley]: my house,
00:37:02,045 --> 00:37:02,290
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:37:02,695 --> 00:37:09,120
[Shelley]: I go out and sit by the door. Small by a creek in nature by the trees and instead
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:14,726
[Shelley]: of closing my eyes I'll keep my eyes just focused on the stream in front of me and
00:37:14,806 --> 00:37:21,520
[Shelley]: I just focus on the sounds around me. sounds to be part of my experience. I listen
00:37:21,540 --> 00:37:26,664
[Shelley]: to the birds, I hear the wind blowing, I hear the trees rustling, I hear the children
00:37:26,704 --> 00:37:33,869
[Shelley]: playing, I hear the water trickling by. That's meditation too because I'm in the
00:37:34,370 --> 00:37:38,233
[Shelley]: present moment and I'm noticing what's right in front
00:37:38,181 --> 00:37:39,021
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:37:38,253 --> 00:37:38,513
[Shelley]: of me.
00:37:39,041 --> 00:37:44,902
[Rick Barron]: And you know, sometimes those moments just happen spontaneously. In case
00:37:44,922 --> 00:37:51,664
[Rick Barron]: in point, I was sitting on my porch last week, just reading a book. And we
00:37:51,704 --> 00:37:57,746
[Rick Barron]: have a fountain on the side of the fence that faces the street. And periodically,
00:37:57,766 --> 00:38:03,188
[Rick Barron]: we know we get birds who will fly down there to drink the water. But as I
00:38:03,208 --> 00:38:06,228
[Rick Barron]: was reading my book, I just happened to look up and I saw this tiny little bird.
00:38:07,345 --> 00:38:10,325
[Rick Barron]: and it looked like he was just, you know, bathing. And then
00:38:10,250 --> 00:38:10,535
[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
00:38:10,425 --> 00:38:14,466
[Rick Barron]: all of a sudden, he just started going in a circle and he
00:38:14,453 --> 00:38:14,557
[Shelley]: Oh,
00:38:14,526 --> 00:38:14,947
[Rick Barron]: stopped
00:38:14,577 --> 00:38:14,722
[Shelley]: wow.
00:38:15,967 --> 00:38:17,347
[Rick Barron]: and he went again. And he
00:38:17,330 --> 00:38:19,337
[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
00:38:17,367 --> 00:38:19,008
[Rick Barron]: did it like four times.
00:38:19,357 --> 00:38:19,818
[Shelley]: Wow.
00:38:19,768 --> 00:38:21,088
[Rick Barron]: But just watching that,
00:38:21,303 --> 00:38:21,684
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:38:21,968 --> 00:38:27,630
[Rick Barron]: it just took my mind off of everything that had happened that day. It was just one
00:38:27,650 --> 00:38:31,471
[Rick Barron]: of those moments that, you know, there are those moments that just put your
00:38:31,511 --> 00:38:36,692
[Rick Barron]: mind at ease that you don't really need to worry as much as you think you need
00:38:36,732 --> 00:38:36,832
[Rick Barron]: to.
00:38:37,566 --> 00:38:45,036
[Shelley]: No, exactly. Yeah, and we're all, the more that we realize that, the more
00:38:45,926 --> 00:38:46,110
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:38:46,839 --> 00:38:49,703
[Shelley]: everything will be okay. Everything
00:38:49,513 --> 00:38:49,713
[Rick Barron]: So, you
00:38:49,723 --> 00:38:49,843
[Shelley]: will
00:38:49,733 --> 00:38:50,153
[Rick Barron]: mentioned
00:38:49,883 --> 00:38:50,725
[Shelley]: be okay in the ball.
00:38:51,453 --> 00:38:57,775
[Rick Barron]: some influencers to me that you asked me to look up on. And one was Ram Doss,
00:38:58,095 --> 00:39:04,737
[Rick Barron]: Jack Kornfield, Sharon Salzberg, gosh, forgive me, I forget the other one. But
00:39:05,497 --> 00:39:12,180
[Rick Barron]: of these influencers, I'm sure they all had their pluses and minuses, but
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,180
[Rick Barron]: which one really stood out the most with you and why?
00:39:16,054 --> 00:39:22,777
[Shelley]: Well, my entry, a few different entry points into this world of
00:39:22,728 --> 00:39:22,959
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:39:23,777 --> 00:39:30,120
[Shelley]: meditation. The first one I have to mention is Wayne Dyer because he was really
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,802
[Shelley]: instrumental to me when I first became a parent and my son was two years old
00:39:35,378 --> 00:39:35,481
[Rick Barron]: Hmm
00:39:35,423 --> 00:39:43,186
[Shelley]: and I would wake at 3am and I would turn on the TV to PBS for some reason and this
00:39:43,226 --> 00:39:44,627
[Shelley]: is like before all the streaming.
00:39:45,513 --> 00:39:45,903
[Rick Barron]: Hahaha.
00:39:46,008 --> 00:39:50,810
[Shelley]: And I turned to PBS and Wayne would be walking the stage talking about the power
00:39:50,850 --> 00:39:52,311
[Shelley]: of intention. And
00:39:52,260 --> 00:39:52,527
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:39:52,391 --> 00:39:56,733
[Shelley]: so that was like an amazing entry point. And then I would say about 10 years
00:39:56,793 --> 00:40:02,456
[Shelley]: later, I was invited to go on my first Ram Dass retreat. And of course, Ram
00:40:02,476 --> 00:40:06,298
[Shelley]: Dass is like, he's like the father of all these teachers that came that pretty
00:40:06,338 --> 00:40:10,981
[Shelley]: much came after like, Wayne was, Ram Dass was Wayne's teacher at one point.
00:40:11,517 --> 00:40:11,702
[Rick Barron]: Huh?
00:40:12,678 --> 00:40:22,143
[Shelley]: So in any case, Ram Dass is an American yogi who was a Harvard psychology professor.
00:40:22,243 --> 00:40:28,106
[Shelley]: His name was originally Richard Alpert. He was a Harvard psychology professor and Stanford
00:40:28,146 --> 00:40:28,786
[Shelley]: graduate.
00:40:29,041 --> 00:40:29,266
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:40:29,887 --> 00:40:38,912
[Shelley]: And he found his way into his mind through experimenting with LSD in the late
00:40:38,972 --> 00:40:47,188
[Shelley]: 60s, along with his... friend and partner of psychology at Harvard, Timothy Leary.
00:40:47,828 --> 00:40:52,550
[Shelley]: But what he realized was like, how do I get to this euphoric place without using
00:40:52,590 --> 00:40:53,971
[Shelley]: drugs? And
00:40:53,890 --> 00:40:53,991
[Rick Barron]: UGH
00:40:54,931 --> 00:41:01,274
[Shelley]: so he went to India and found his
guru, Neem Kurali Baba, and the rest is history.
00:41:01,294 --> 00:41:04,156
[Shelley]: And he wrote the book called, Be Here Now, which is
00:41:04,573 --> 00:41:04,783
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:41:04,976 --> 00:41:10,699
[Shelley]: instrumental to many people's lives, in the counterculture movement and still today.
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:19,663
[Shelley]: sat with Ram Dass on Maui about five times with him and after, unfortunately, after
00:41:19,683 --> 00:41:24,085
[Shelley]: he had his stroke, so he was stroked, he was called that he was stroked and he was
00:41:24,125 --> 00:41:28,027
[Shelley]: confined to a wheelchair in Maui the last like, I guess, 10, 15 years of his
00:41:28,087 --> 00:41:28,847
[Shelley]: life. He
00:41:28,861 --> 00:41:29,008
[Rick Barron]: Wow.
00:41:28,887 --> 00:41:35,466
[Shelley]: just passed like four years ago, about four years ago and... And so I was really
00:41:35,506 --> 00:41:41,129
[Shelley]: fortunate enough to meet him and talk with him a little bit and also meet other
00:41:41,169 --> 00:41:44,490
[Shelley]: teachers that like Jack Kornfield and Sharon Salzberg.
00:41:44,713 --> 00:41:45,070
[Rick Barron]: Sure.
00:41:44,950 --> 00:41:53,614
[Shelley]: So he really leaves psychology and spirituality and that is, that's my thing.
00:41:54,715 --> 00:41:59,497
[Shelley]: I love those two points that come together.
00:42:00,134 --> 00:42:00,323
[Rick Barron]: Hmm
00:42:00,638 --> 00:42:04,181
[Shelley]: I could go on and talk about him forever, but because he's so special.
00:42:04,317 --> 00:42:09,198
[Rick Barron]: Well, feel free to. I mean, now I was, as I was sharing with the audience,
00:42:09,218 --> 00:42:15,160
[Rick Barron]: and again, I encouraged them to go visit your website. I was looking around
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,821
[Rick Barron]: and I came across something and I don't want to give it away, but it started
00:42:19,841 --> 00:42:22,602
[Rick Barron]: off the saying that meditation is an opportunity.
00:42:23,246 --> 00:42:23,497
[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
00:42:23,442 --> 00:42:27,803
[Rick Barron]: And when I read the words, I thought, oh, that's lovely. I was wondering
00:42:27,823 --> 00:42:31,384
[Rick Barron]: if you could read that or recite it to the audience.
00:42:31,718 --> 00:42:32,419
[Shelley]: Oh yeah.
00:42:32,141 --> 00:42:33,122
[Rick Barron]: if you have
00:42:34,221 --> 00:42:34,962
[Shelley]: Yeah. I'm
00:42:34,804 --> 00:42:35,285
[Rick Barron]: the website
00:42:34,982 --> 00:42:36,524
[Shelley]: just,
00:42:35,325 --> 00:42:36,366
[Rick Barron]: up in front of you by chance.
00:42:36,544 --> 00:42:37,125
[Shelley]: I'm going to
00:42:37,087 --> 00:42:37,188
[Rick Barron]: I'll
00:42:37,165 --> 00:42:37,405
[Shelley]: do
00:42:37,208 --> 00:42:37,408
[Rick Barron]: give you
00:42:37,425 --> 00:42:37,605
[Shelley]: that.
00:42:37,448 --> 00:42:37,989
[Rick Barron]: a minute there.
00:42:37,765 --> 00:42:38,126
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:42:39,110 --> 00:42:39,491
[Rick Barron]: But
00:42:39,327 --> 00:42:40,789
[Shelley]: Um, yeah. It's about
00:42:40,772 --> 00:42:40,872
[Rick Barron]: if.
00:42:40,909 --> 00:42:43,212
[Shelley]: attention and intention. Yeah.
00:42:43,331 --> 00:42:43,596
[Rick Barron]: Okay.
00:42:45,518 --> 00:42:51,802
[Shelley]: Attention is focused awareness, but intention is awareness given a purpose.
00:42:52,233 --> 00:42:52,443
[Rick Barron]: Hmm.
00:42:52,282 --> 00:42:59,207
[Shelley]: And so my purpose is to clarify your attention and intention, bringing self-awareness
00:42:59,687 --> 00:43:03,550
[Shelley]: through meditation to improve your relationships
00:43:03,878 --> 00:43:04,166
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:43:04,270 --> 00:43:08,993
[Shelley]: and to clarify your communication to express your reality.
00:43:10,819 --> 00:43:16,555
[Rick Barron]: Okay, now... Could I ask you to read that to the audience? Because I really
00:43:16,595 --> 00:43:19,717
[Rick Barron]: think that, again, I think this is a lovely passage. And I think they would
00:43:19,757 --> 00:43:23,200
[Rick Barron]: love to hear it if you have it in front of you. Or if not, I could read it
00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:23,620
[Rick Barron]: for you.
00:43:24,018 --> 00:43:27,084
[Shelley]: Oh, is that the one that I just read or was there a different one?
00:43:27,249 --> 00:43:30,773
[Rick Barron]: Well, you had another one that where you called out, you just had updated
00:43:30,793 --> 00:43:38,001
[Rick Barron]: your website and it started off where meditation is an opportunity to become
00:43:38,062 --> 00:43:39,423
[Rick Barron]: friends, but it goes
00:43:39,374 --> 00:43:39,574
[Shelley]: Oh,
00:43:39,543 --> 00:43:39,984
[Rick Barron]: on after
00:43:39,894 --> 00:43:40,434
[Shelley]: yes.
00:43:40,004 --> 00:43:40,324
[Rick Barron]: that.
00:43:40,854 --> 00:43:45,857
[Shelley]: Thank you. Yes, I have that one up. Okay. Meditation is an opportunity to become
00:43:45,897 --> 00:43:51,200
[Shelley]: friends with our automatic and habitual thoughts and delve into the inner wisdom and
00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:55,963
[Shelley]: compassion inherent in all human beings. This practice
00:43:55,335 --> 00:43:55,587
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:43:56,403 --> 00:44:02,487
[Shelley]: transforms your relationships with yourself and others over time. And for parents,
00:44:02,567 --> 00:44:06,469
[Shelley]: it can particularly strengthen their relationships with their children.
00:44:08,409 --> 00:44:10,271
[Rick Barron]: Yeah, that's very pretty.
00:44:13,475 --> 00:44:17,299
[Rick Barron]: What motivated you to write that passage? Because I'm sure you put a lot of
00:44:17,359 --> 00:44:18,320
[Rick Barron]: thought into this.
00:44:18,819 --> 00:44:25,948
[Shelley]: Yeah. Well, because it's something that I've had to excavate myself. I do have
00:44:26,048 --> 00:44:29,830
[Shelley]: a child who is neurodivergent
00:44:30,313 --> 00:44:30,477
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:44:31,251 --> 00:44:38,214
[Shelley]: and he's been living with some mental health challenges. He lives with schizophrenia.
00:44:38,234 --> 00:44:45,658
[Shelley]: It's been for eight years now. And I've realized that he is my teacher.
00:44:46,298 --> 00:44:46,482
[Rick Barron]: Mmm.
00:44:47,298 --> 00:44:55,221
[Shelley]: I am not the ruler of him. I am not the control freak. You know, we're here to
00:44:56,342 --> 00:44:59,923
[Shelley]: nurture and keep our children safe and protected. However,
00:44:59,601 --> 00:44:59,785
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:45:00,603 --> 00:45:08,706
[Shelley]: what I've learned from this experience is that he has to have his own journey. He
00:45:08,746 --> 00:45:11,647
[Shelley]: has to have his own, it's his own karma, just
00:45:11,610 --> 00:45:11,876
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:45:11,727 --> 00:45:20,138
[Shelley]: as I'm having my own karma. And we're each individual souls on our own journey. So
00:45:20,198 --> 00:45:26,160
[Shelley]: I'm here to guide, but I'm not here to control. And so it's this letting go that
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:31,703
[Shelley]: I have to do all the time because it's very easy to stay in fear. And all I can
00:45:31,743 --> 00:45:38,946
[Shelley]: do is change myself. And I so much love to help parents realize that,
00:45:39,261 --> 00:45:39,590
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:45:39,447 --> 00:45:47,310
[Shelley]: that as much as we want our children to be happy and successful, they will do it
00:45:47,590 --> 00:45:54,035
[Shelley]: in their own time and in their own way. and we can't continue to protect them.
00:45:54,415 --> 00:46:01,300
[Shelley]: It's like Cahil Gibran says, your children are not your children. They belong
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:01,981
[Shelley]: to the world.
00:46:02,533 --> 00:46:07,756
[Rick Barron]: Right. So I think you've kind of alluded that you have worked with other
00:46:08,717 --> 00:46:15,822
[Rick Barron]: parents who have a child, you know, that is, you know, divergent, if you
00:46:15,862 --> 00:46:20,705
[Rick Barron]: will. So I imagine there's a common ground there between, or common bond,
00:46:20,725 --> 00:46:24,267
[Rick Barron]: excuse me, between you that you can, there's a lot you can share
00:46:24,663 --> 00:46:24,952
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:46:24,788 --> 00:46:29,131
[Rick Barron]: with one another. And I think when they hear it from you, it's just really,
00:46:30,111 --> 00:46:34,802
[Rick Barron]: you know, here's someone who understands. And so I'm sure those conversations
00:46:34,842 --> 00:46:39,926
[Rick Barron]: have been very, not only beneficial to the person that you're talking to, but for
00:46:39,966 --> 00:46:44,889
[Rick Barron]: you, because I'm sure it gives you inner strength to, to know there are other
00:46:44,909 --> 00:46:49,332
[Rick Barron]: people out there who are also dealing with, you know, the same issue, if
00:46:49,352 --> 00:46:49,632
[Rick Barron]: you will.
00:46:50,526 --> 00:46:57,989
[Shelley]: Yeah, it's, I work, so I hold two support parents, support groups per month.
00:46:58,491 --> 00:46:58,638
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:46:59,370 --> 00:47:05,132
[Shelley]: We actually, so some of the parents are, do have children that are neurodivergent,
00:47:06,673 --> 00:47:14,417
[Shelley]: all different issues. Some parents have children that are transitioning to another
00:47:14,577 --> 00:47:25,003
[Shelley]: gender. Some are dealing with children that have, maybe addiction issues or co-dependency
00:47:25,063 --> 00:47:30,326
[Shelley]: issues. And so again, like I'm not here as a therapist, I'm just here to hold
00:47:30,406 --> 00:47:30,947
[Shelley]: space
00:47:31,453 --> 00:47:31,684
[Rick Barron]: Sure.
00:47:32,147 --> 00:47:37,511
[Shelley]: and use. So what we do is we meditate together, I guide everyone in the meditation,
00:47:37,531 --> 00:47:41,313
[Shelley]: and then we check, have like a two minute, everybody does a two minute check in
00:47:41,354 --> 00:47:43,855
[Shelley]: like how they're feeling in that moment. So again,
00:47:43,712 --> 00:47:43,835
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:47:43,875 --> 00:47:51,040
[Shelley]: we're in the present moment. And then we read a teaching from Ram Dass, about
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:55,463
[Shelley]: parenting or relationships and use other spiritual teachers. We will read a passage
00:47:55,503 --> 00:47:57,205
[Shelley]: that I curate
00:47:56,921 --> 00:47:57,251
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:47:57,325 --> 00:48:03,810
[Shelley]: and then we'll talk about them and say how can we use this passage to be better
00:48:03,850 --> 00:48:09,354
[Shelley]: parents and to accept our children as they are and with unconditional love and
00:48:09,414 --> 00:48:10,315
[Shelley]: not with
00:48:10,226 --> 00:48:10,478
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:48:10,335 --> 00:48:13,897
[Shelley]: these expectations that we place upon them.
00:48:13,969 --> 00:48:18,551
[Rick Barron]: Those have those I would imagine those types of sessions are very some very
00:48:18,631 --> 00:48:19,932
[Rick Barron]: heavy conversations
00:48:20,437 --> 00:48:20,746
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:48:20,452 --> 00:48:25,055
[Rick Barron]: and very I would imagine very emotional conversations
00:48:24,542 --> 00:48:25,186
[Shelley]: It can be.
00:48:25,115 --> 00:48:25,255
[Rick Barron]: and
00:48:25,850 --> 00:48:26,131
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:48:26,476 --> 00:48:32,899
[Rick Barron]: it's I'm sure there's a strength building and there's emotional building and
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:39,323
[Rick Barron]: you know I can't imagine what it must feel like I can I can try but just
00:48:39,863 --> 00:48:44,597
[Rick Barron]: knowing what you know you and you have to think about this, at least you're
00:48:44,617 --> 00:48:47,739
[Rick Barron]: there to help them because,
00:48:47,427 --> 00:48:47,591
[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
00:48:47,879 --> 00:48:51,842
[Rick Barron]: you know, it's an outlet for them. Say, look, here's someone I can talk
00:48:51,882 --> 00:48:53,883
[Rick Barron]: to. They understand my world.
00:48:54,464 --> 00:48:54,794
[Shelley]: night.
00:48:55,164 --> 00:49:00,827
[Rick Barron]: So I think that is of a huge benefit to them and I think it has to give
00:49:00,867 --> 00:49:02,528
[Rick Barron]: you a lot of gratification.
00:49:03,550 --> 00:49:09,312
[Shelley]: Yeah, it's really, it's a really beautiful heart space experience that we all,
00:49:09,692 --> 00:49:13,273
[Shelley]: we barely know each other, but we get, I don't know, there's something that happens
00:49:13,293 --> 00:49:16,634
[Shelley]: that we just get right to the heart of it all very quickly
00:49:15,965 --> 00:49:16,175
[Rick Barron]: Sure.
00:49:17,235 --> 00:49:21,216
[Shelley]: and it's not a like, stitch and bitch session, you know?
00:49:21,294 --> 00:49:21,636
[Rick Barron]: Hahaha
00:49:21,556 --> 00:49:27,269
[Shelley]: It's not, it's not like it's a, you know... We just, we've come away, I know that
00:49:27,369 --> 00:49:33,200
[Shelley]: everyone, we all come away feeling supported and seen and validated.
00:49:33,705 --> 00:49:42,450
[Rick Barron]: Sure. Do you periodically get any emails or letters, if you will, from people
00:49:42,470 --> 00:49:48,253
[Rick Barron]: who have attended your sessions and say, hey, Shelley, I was in your class
00:49:48,273 --> 00:49:54,277
[Rick Barron]: about a year ago or whatever, and what I learned from you has been extremely
00:49:54,337 --> 00:49:57,879
[Rick Barron]: helpful for me. I mean, those are my words, but do you ever get that type
00:49:57,939 --> 00:49:59,720
[Rick Barron]: of feedback from people like you?
00:50:00,546 --> 00:50:06,187
[Shelley]: Yeah, I can read one of my testimonials actually from one of the parents that I've
00:50:06,207 --> 00:50:06,427
[Shelley]: been
00:50:06,351 --> 00:50:06,557
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:50:06,607 --> 00:50:13,349
[Shelley]: working with. He said that as a divorced parent struggling to raise a transgendered
00:50:13,709 --> 00:50:14,770
[Shelley]: adolescent in a
00:50:15,025 --> 00:50:15,193
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:50:15,050 --> 00:50:22,712
[Shelley]: more awakened loving way, Shelley's co-facilitation of the parent sangha has brought
00:50:22,752 --> 00:50:26,893
[Shelley]: me the emotional support that I need to keep going but also the spiritual guidance
00:50:26,933 --> 00:50:29,950
[Shelley]: to find some direction on the path. And
00:50:29,670 --> 00:50:29,712
[Rick Barron]: Oh.
00:50:30,930 --> 00:50:36,774
[Shelley]: so when then other people have said stuff like, taking time to meditate with me
00:50:36,834 --> 00:50:41,937
[Shelley]: has helped people help me let go of some of my worries and to be more accepting
00:50:42,497 --> 00:50:45,319
[Shelley]: of reality. So things like
00:50:44,179 --> 00:50:44,431
[Rick Barron]: Yeah.
00:50:45,379 --> 00:50:50,262
[Shelley]: that. So yeah, I'm super grateful that, and then people can meditate with me
00:50:50,342 --> 00:50:54,805
[Shelley]: any time on the, I have recordings on the Insight Timer app.
00:50:55,844 --> 00:50:56,049
[Rick Barron]: Okay.
00:50:56,973 --> 00:50:59,323
[Shelley]: so people can find me there and
00:50:59,557 --> 00:50:59,797
[Rick Barron]: So
00:50:59,584 --> 00:50:59,965
[Shelley]: listen to
00:50:59,957 --> 00:51:00,217
[Rick Barron]: when
00:51:00,206 --> 00:51:00,447
[Shelley]: free
00:51:00,277 --> 00:51:01,998
[Rick Barron]: we
00:51:00,487 --> 00:51:01,090
[Shelley]: recordings.
00:51:02,018 --> 00:51:07,441
[Rick Barron]: get this podcast ready to roll, I guess people can go to your website to get
00:51:07,501 --> 00:51:11,603
[Rick Barron]: information of how to get in contact with you and find out about courses
00:51:11,664 --> 00:51:13,585
[Rick Barron]: you provide or,
00:51:13,654 --> 00:51:14,590
[Shelley]: Yeah, yeah.
00:51:14,445 --> 00:51:20,228
[Rick Barron]: okay. That'd be great. So we've covered a lot of ground here. And this has
00:51:20,268 --> 00:51:25,572
[Rick Barron]: been, at least for me, it's been very enlightening because you share things
00:51:25,792 --> 00:51:30,817
[Rick Barron]: with me I never really knew. about meditation. And when I did my research,
00:51:31,538 --> 00:51:38,139
[Rick Barron]: I also found information that gave me an eye opener like, okay, this isn't
00:51:38,179 --> 00:51:45,362
[Rick Barron]: just a fluke. There's something here. And if you take the time like you say
00:51:45,402 --> 00:51:52,604
[Rick Barron]: to listen, listen with your heart, you will find that you're going to be better
00:51:52,684 --> 00:51:56,553
[Rick Barron]: off for it in the long run. It's almost like you're Take the time to smell the
00:51:56,573 --> 00:52:02,515
[Rick Barron]: flowers, so to speak, and don't worry about the small little things that would
00:52:02,555 --> 00:52:04,596
[Rick Barron]: get you upset. It's just not
worth it.
00:52:05,347 --> 00:52:05,488
[Shelley]: Great.
00:52:05,916 --> 00:52:11,378
[Rick Barron]: With what time we have in our lives, I mean, it could go at any minute. So
00:52:12,158 --> 00:52:18,440
[Rick Barron]: you've gotta live the time that you have and live it to fulfill it. If you
00:52:18,500 --> 00:52:24,642
[Rick Barron]: had... A final thought that you would love to leave with the audience when
00:52:24,662 --> 00:52:28,452
[Rick Barron]: they walk away from our discussion today. What would that be?
00:52:30,035 --> 00:52:34,968
[Shelley]: that meditation is a practice and it's something you can start over again and
00:52:35,008 --> 00:52:35,329
[Shelley]: again.
00:52:37,769 --> 00:52:43,811
[Rick Barron]: Good, I like that. So listen, it's been great talking with you. Again, I've
00:52:43,831 --> 00:52:47,873
[Rick Barron]: been looking forward to having you on my show so we could talk about this.
00:52:48,753 --> 00:52:52,034
[Rick Barron]: And again, I think you've offered a lot of insight and I think people are gonna
00:52:52,054 --> 00:52:56,176
[Rick Barron]: enjoy going to your blog site and your website to get additional information.
00:52:57,037 --> 00:53:02,099
[Rick Barron]: So for that, I'm gonna say, well, there you go, my friends. That's life, I swear.
00:53:02,879 --> 00:53:07,253
[Rick Barron]: For further information regarding the material covered in this episode. I invite
00:53:07,273 --> 00:53:12,759
[Rick Barron]: you to my website that you can find on either Apple Podcasts or Google Podcasts
00:53:12,859 --> 00:53:17,003
[Rick Barron]: for show notes, calling out key pieces of content mentioned, and the episode
00:53:17,043 --> 00:53:22,068
[Rick Barron]: transcript. As always, I thank you for listening. Be sure to subscribe here
00:53:22,629 --> 00:53:26,092
[Rick Barron]: or wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss an episode. See you soon!
