Interview #39 Franko Munoz: Don't just speak Spanish, think in Spanish

Rick (00:01.331)

Hi everyone, I'm Rick Barron, your host, and welcome to my podcast, and that's Life, I Swear. My guest today is Franko Munoz, the founder of Casa de Franko, a fun Spanish school. 

So, here's a thought. What if learning a language isn't really about language at all? What if it's about learning to see the world differently? And that's the philosophy behind my guest today. Franko's idea is simple but very provocative.

Don't just speak Spanish, think in Spanish. 

Franko is a native of Peru and a multilingual educator. And he believes students play, you know, they make mistakes, they laugh and explore culture. That said, Franko believes learning should be immersive, conversational, and above all else, fun. But Franko's story is bigger than Spanish. It's about forging your own path.

Discovering an unexpected passion, and then building something that reflects who you are. This is Franko's story. 

Please join me as I have my conversation with Franko Munoz. Franko, welcome to the show.

Franko (01:14.158)

Thank you, Rick, thank you for the invitation. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me about what I do and my passion, which is teaching at Casa de Franko.

Rick (01:23.079)

I know it is. And just before we get started, I want to tell the audience that Franko is suffering a little bit from allergies, so he may be sneezing or coughing, so just bear with us. But he's a gamer; he's ready to go. So, Franko, tell us a little bit about yourself and then how you kind of got into this business of wanting to teach Spanish to those who want to learn it.

Franko (01:50.977)

Okay.

As you mentioned, I'm originally from Peru, and since an early age I have had a multicultural background because I grew up in Peru and Argentina as a child. I moved to Argentina as a teen, and I lived there, where I also learned a different type of Spanish, right? Spanish got different b accents, different variations. So I learned the accent from that as well. And then when I was in my mid-twenties.

In my early 20s, I moved to the United States. First, I lived in New York, and then I lived in California, which I consider home now. And I don't know. So that's basically what my background is, but I know there are more questions coming up. I don't want to go ahead and just kill your questions, so feel free to ask me, or if you want me to elaborate more on this, I'm happy to do it.

Rick (02:48.445)

No, just feel free to elaborate. Sure, I'll ask you some questions, but I want you to expand on, you know, your story and how you got into wanting to teach this language and how it's become a career. Now, I  know you said when we first introduced ourselves a while back, I discovered you had offices here in California, and more so in, like, San Jose and I think other locations. 

Did you start your business here to teach Spanish to students?

Franko (03:24.695)

Okay, so how I started. I mean, actually, what I say in my background and what I say to my students now when I teach, when I'm in class, is that I was the typical married kid, right? I was annoying my brother, maybe because I was correcting everyone, and that's what I keep saying: this is the perfect job for me and I didn't wanna take it as a job and for many reasons that we can just elaborate on it as we go. But basically, when I was in school- when I was in primary school, elementary school, and high school- I was one of the first students in the class, right? And not because I love studying, and I'm very methodical, because I'm not methodical, and that's my main problem when it comes to that problem. The topic we're gonna talk about later fits into the regular system; I never got to fit into it. But what I like is what I love is learning.

And that's an important distinction we must make. In some languages, they don't make that difference between learning and studying. I have a Russian friend that we were discussing; we were just working, and she's the one who helped me with my website, Vera. And she's a designer, and we were just discussing the best work to put on the website, right? And she was telling me about study. No, I don't wanna use the word study in my club in my website because study feels so rigid.

You know, but learning is sort of more flexible; it's more about discovering. It's natural, but study is not natural; it's more about method, and then I don't like it. And I discovered also in other languages they don't have because in Russian they don't have the difference. Learning study is the same word. In Chinese is the same thing. And there are many other languages that don't make the differences. Right? And then

Rick (05:24.287)

Yeah.

Franko (05:33.396)

So how I discovered, I always I think I think I always were a teacher and people look at me as somebody who can learn from, but the main reason was I guess my mom was a teacher, my dad was a teacher, I didn't wanna follow on the path and also I know in it's not only in the United States, in many countries, including Peru, teachers are not necessarily well paid or recognize that they should for their job, for the labor they do, they the type of work they do.

And then, so it was for me; it was like I wasn't the way to go. Yeah? And then, ha, but as I said, when I was in high school, people would just come to me to ask me, especially, you know, the classical, when it's closer to the exams, right? Or presentation. They would come to me to ask me questions about the exam, or about what to do or what to study, or to help with projects, which I was happy to do. Because not like I make me feel important, but like I mean I love to share what I know with others. I think that's rewarding somehow.

And then I figured out when I was in college, because I study I finished college in the US, I did study in Peru, but then I moved to the US. I finished college in the US. I went to USA, University of San Francisco. And I started this career, this path, as a peer tutor.

So, I was teaching my other students like myself. I was an undergrad and I was of course they were s they were taking Spanish and I was the native speaker and I needed the money of course, right? It wasn't a lot of money of course, right? At the time it was nine dollars an hour or helped me to survive at least as a student as I was working on my major and then when I left school also

I kept on teaching because I I remember also when I was studying abroad I went to Europe. Also it was more difficult to find a in the US you know it's much easier to find a job compared to Europe because in the US you need to have you don't need to have some special certificate to work in a store, let's say or in a restaurant, like you do in Europe, in most countries in Europe. So then I started. I had to do what I knew how to do, or what to do, which is teaching, right? I started posting in cafes and coffee shops and on walls, different places, about offering what I knew, right, teaching English and Spanish, because at that time I was fluent in English already.

And the interesting thing that was people looked me more to teaching English than Spanish and French. but that's okay, so I did it. I did it. And then when I came back to the U the the US I finished college, I got my degree on political science and in psychology, which was the major I was doing in Peru. And then I mentioned in Latin American Studies.

And then so when I came back to the US, I was jobless. So I was debating between doing pursuing a master but by that time I was already in a huge debt to finish my undergrad or con or looking for a job. I was applying to different jobs and nothing came up. And I guess I wasn't marketable either. The age or whatever it was or my skills. And then so I applied to a language school.

They looked actually no I didn't apply they looked they found me because I was offering my job in Chrysler I don't know if you remember crazy at that time back then I'm talking about what 10-15 years ago maybe yeah I don't know they exist still but whatever

Rick (10:14.517)

When you say they found you, where were you?

Franko (10:17.572)

I don't think you need the camera anyway. No, they found me because I was announced on Craigslist. I was announcing myself on Craigslist. So it was one lady in San Jose who look at my background, I mean on my on my ad and she said, I'm looking for a teacher and it looked like you have the skills I want and  she offered me the job. She offered me the job, and it's not like I applied; I just sent my resume, and that's it. And and I started teaching then and I realized that was good at it. I be I realized I was good at it and people like me and I was like it's interesting how you need someone to give you the credit that you deserve that maybe you don't really believe it. And some random people, I mean not random because when my students and I love my students has to show you this the self-love that you should have for yourself. Because I I didn't I mean to me what it just came naturally to teach or to or or to to explain grammar or to explain vocab which is another interesting thing. 

When I started my other my only tool or I would say the most important tool it was that was an AFT. I could just lie to my students saying whatever things because I was studying I knew the grammar of course because that was my language but I didn't know how to explain it because one thing is to know your language and to speak fluently in educated way as an educated person but the other thing is to to explain to a non-native speaker

Why do you say it this? Why do you say it this way? It's easy to come up with synonyms, right? But with the fact is, why in Spanish I use said, you know, in Spanish you have two ways to spread the verb to be, right? Why to say said and why to say estar? I had to explain that to students. And and and I of course, I mean, it's easy to find it online at that time or look for books, so I have to do that.

In order not to be to have a base. I could just tell or or guess in the t in in the meantime when I was in class. But as I always say my students, I don't know everything even now. After more than 10 years of experience, I don't know everything. So if I don't know it, I would say, you know what, I have to look for the information because I don't know it. 

So that's how I studied as a teacher. And then I just through time I realized I was good. Maybe I'm good. Maybe and that's why you maybe on one of the questions you formulate was that it was by accident that I I became a teacher. It's not like I'm opposed to the question, yes maybe by accident, but at the same time it's not by accident, right? Because I grew up and I because I always been

I think in English we say library rap, right? Is that why you say in it yeah in Spanish ratone biblioteca, right? So, I was always like I mean I grew up come on dude, I grew up in a bookstore. My family had business, so I grew up with books. I have brook in different topics. So that was part of my job, being a librarian, right? A library clerk. 

I mean a bookstore clerk and then and that's all maybe the other reason that that couldn't fit in the system because I was so used to not being told what to do or what to or what or what to say, right? In like I was like when I tried to be part of the system because I applied to different schools and I wanted to get a job too because I want experience but it didn't work out. It's good. At the end because I'm doing what I like the most. I'm passionate about this.

I don't know if I'm pressing one question. Yeah, go ahead.

Rick (14:36.191)

So, in years yeah, in the years that you yeah, in the years that you've been teaching, how many years have you been doing this? Let's start there.

Franko (14:46.508)

Okay, let's say. I would say twenty years now. Since I was in college. Yeah, since I was in college. More than twenty years. I was probably because I went late to college. I was twenty-eight, twenty-seven when I went to college.

And then I was in the US. Here I started younger but then since I didn't went to college for a few years 'cause I was just trying to learn the language and trying to in when I was in the US. I was probably twenty-four, twenty-five when I moved to the US. I was already having a I mean going to college here in Peru. 

But so I had to stop at some point trying to figure out what to do with my life and then I decided I was what I have a different degree too, which is interesting. I don't use it and probably never mentioned. I went to a dentist school here in Peru. Yeah, but I didn't lick I didn't like it at all. I didn't like to be in people's mouth at all. Literally. But but I I didn't I didn't become a dentist. I became a dental technician. So that way it was a short career, right? 

I was working in California for about two or three years until realized no this thing is boring to me. I my skills or my or my abilities or my talent is not my hands. I'd say my talent is here and my tongue. So I and and I knew that but the only the only thing I didn't know was what exactly. Right? And when I applied to college, I went to psychology because it's something I like. I always want

I've been more into humanities and languages and but I was lost, dude. I was lost. I didn't know what to do for like thirty years of my life.

Rick (16:44.029)

No, I I think that happens to a lot of people, you know. I mean, but in in the twenty years that you've been teaching, have you changed your techniques from what you did in the beginning to where you are today and how you teach the language to those who come to Casa de Franko?

Franko (17:06.168)

I think yes and no because the philosophy is still the same. And I guess there are many things that probably changed.

One of the things I have to change through time but I still do it, right? It's like because it's natural to me to speak fast. Because that's part of the language. Spanish is one of the fastest languages in the world. So that is something I learned that I have to do a slow down for a person who's learning the language and try to speak it slowly. But I guess my personality is the same.

Yeah, of course you became more mature, and you changed some things, right? But the philosophy that you I know you had a chance to read the philosophy because you mentioned that in one of you and the and the information you sent to me hasn't changed. It's pretty much because that's how I learned language myself by immersing myself in the language. I know doesn't work for everyone and that's totally fine. That's that's probably one of the things I have to do to adjust myself to the student. Because at the end I know the client because we are a business, right? The client is the most important thing for a business. 

But no yeah, I changed a little bit like mentioned this slowly trying to be more organized because you can tap on the personality. I'm not a very organized person per se. That's no one of my skills on my forte, which is okay, right? Everyone is different. I mean everyone has a different skill. What else? No, you're fine. Well else I would say that that's the most important thing. Yeah, I changed weight too, definitely, and more white, more white hair, maybe other. But other than that I wouldn't say so.

Rick (19:02.37)

I love the name Casa de Franko. How did you get that name? How did that come about?

Franko (19:10.03)

Okay, that's an i that's interesting question. Because okay. That's something I keep saying and and I and something we don't realize as people, that we just pursue happiness and we are looking after happiness. When happiness is there all the time, it's being there with us, we just don't realize. 

What did I mean by that? That the most important thing or the best thing that happened in my life they just came by yourself. You I wasn't looking for them. One of them is being a teacher.

One of them, believe it or not, being an American citizen, too, is all something that is happening, it's getting my life, I like it, because that's a different story we can discuss on a different day, how I became an American citizen, how I got how I got I win the lottery to get the permanent resident in in the US. That's a different story for another day. So I wasn't looking per se for that. It just came, right? And and that's the thing. 

We as humans we need understand that the best things in your life, they just come by itself right of course, you keep working hard you keep passionate about it but other than that you just they just came they just come they just come you don't have to look for them and one of them is the name right working in this school I was working almost full time at some point.

But the I had a problem, I probably t you really can tell. I'm a very opinionated person and I don't feel in the system and I always speak my my mind and that was part of the problem too. And say maybe that's a nice way to say. But other than that, so I I because I mean I cannot complain about this previous school I worked for because they gave me the

Rick (20:49.821)

Well, you're being true to yourself though.

Franko (21:06.404)

the opportunity to be myself and to cut my own style but at the same time it was confusing at some point and I decided you know what? And and it wasn't a full time job of course, I didn't have all the benefits. And at some point they they tried to put some parameters, some norms, that it was hard for me to follow. I have to be honest about it, because I'm really bad at it.

And so, I decided to you know what I think it's about time to start my own path, right? I like it. I was I was already convinced that I was good at this. So that's the only thing I needed to I was good. So I guess I'm good. I need to believe it. Now that I believe it, the hardest part start. Just to start your own part, your own business.

 So, and at the end the good thing is when I left the school, the other school, I I left good terms, even then we got to a financial agreement because for whatever reason she wanted the owner wanted to make sure I didn't complain later about her law or sue or whatever, right? Which is okay. And so I started doing my own thing. Because they took off hours from what I was doing; let's say I was doing thirty-five, forty hours, I was happy with that. But then all of a sudden I was just doing twenty hours and I said I need more money. 

So, I needed to start on my own. So I need to advert I came back to advertising my skills again crazy lists and thinking about creating my own website. And I was in that process, right? And some students follow me from the other school and we talk about it with the owner, we need to get to an agreement, right? Because at the end the client goes to whatever they prefer.

And then so I didn't have a say a a location to teach, right? And I didn't save enough money for that because I was just doing the day-to-day life and living up to the day. And then I started teaching in the in the basement of my house. It was a huge house I was renting at that point.

And the only place that was open and f and because the other space that was share space I got roommates when I was living in San Jose. And it was funny how my some of my friends, my students and friends, who were making fun of me, how I was teaching independent, because I'm kinda creepy, right?

Yeah, and then and I understand even some new students, especially women, they were afraid and they just preferred to know me better before they got in I totally understand, right? One of the students I remember, I think her name was almost twenty years ago. And and I and I was trying to come up with a name, right? I had Casa de Español which was the most the the best candidate, right? But I took I I then I figured out because I have to do my research online about the name and and it was taken. So I couldn't use the name anymore, right?

Then okay, well, I don't remember the other option was off right now, to be honest with you. But anyway so and I heard two of my students talking to each other in class before class and and then one of them talked to the other, yeah and she said right she said I need to go to Franko's house. 

And I heard that I was like a I got it. That's the name. Casa de Franko, right? Why Casa de Español? Casa de Franko. And I think I mentioned before my legal name is not even Franko, right? That's the name I go by and why all my students know me. When I was back in college again, teaching teaching my peer, my peers, and working at the front desk, because that was also part of my job.

People come up to me like, I will put my name on it. So people will just look at me like and they look at me. Is that your name Frank? I was like, yeah. Of course, yeah, with this accent with this face, I guess in Peruvian, why the heck is your name Frank? But some people don't understand that in many Spanish speaking countries it's very common now to have English names, right? And say, okay, I was just

Tired of the question, say you know what, I add an A-O to the Frank. And so, Franko, okay. Nobody asked me that question anymore. Right? About that. And then also being a Spanish teacher, why would I call myself Frank? Right? Franko. Sounds more Spanish speaker. But I kept it differently. Well no Franko usually is spelled either in Italian or Spanish with a C.

So, I kept the decay or my original name, my legal name. And then and I did the same thing for casa. Why when I have this student in the basement of my house, St. Franko's house, I guess Casa also have to do with the decay. And I remember in the beginning people were just trying to correct me online.

But dude, that's my name. I wanna call myself what freaking way I wanna, you know? You're not gonna tell me how to call myself. Then people were like you know what? But I got some friend telling me, but wait, isn't that like you misspelled the word cast, let me think there's not the right place to learn Spanish. I mean, I think it will be limited in that way. I mean it doesn't mean I I'm not good at teaching Spanish or not in book Spanish book.

And the people would think that way, I would say would be less than most people. Because we all know that the cast is with a C, me with a K, right?

Rick (27:14.409)

Got it. I love your motto: just don't speak Spanish, think in Spanish. How did that come about? What, what, and when you explain that to your students, how do they read it? I mean, can you explain all that?

Franko (27:30.894)

Yeah, because I follow different languages. That's how I'm I I'm a ling I consider myself a linguist now, even though as as a school my formation in school was more in pedagogy, more in psychology or politics, but knowing different languages and learning about linguistics because I have to do it to be a teacher, a language teacher. I follow different languages in the world and I had a different people, right?

 I remember this lady. I know her name is Carmen, but I don't remember her last name exactly; she's from Balasana. She's a very interesting lady. That's made me think about how I approach languages. Because most of us within the language is something that we use to talk. But not really. Talk is just a result of it. Language is a tool that we use to think. Because you can you cannot talk and just still the language is in your mind, right?

That different discussion that we learned did we own the language or the language on us as a different discussion that Wittgenstein would put it but that's a different discussion for a different day. But that was the point, right? And the other thing that I also heard from one of my Mandarin instructors recently, I agree with it because that's part of my philosophy. Most of us we think the language is knowledge. Yeah, it is, maybe.

But more than a knowledge is a skills. It's a skill. It's something that you you use. Not only to communicate, but also for you to understand your world. It's a different perspective. That's why in my you go to my to the Casa de Franko philosophy.

Language is a way to see the word. That's probably that's something one of the questions you also put on on the on the summary we did of the previous interview. and that's what the motto comes from, right? I'm gonna teach you no grammar, I'm not gonna teach you vocab, because you can do that on your own. You can just read a book and just learn a language.

But the other thing is that you may know a whole dictionary, the meaning of it, but the problem is how to use it. You know how to use it. So that's what it comes to. That's when it comes to skills. It's not just knowledge. It's a skill. Based on knowledge, yes, but it's a skill. So the same thing with with the motor, right? Don't just speak Spanish. Don't just use it to speak. Start thinking. Why is that? Because in that when we talk about how kids I the when we talk about kids being the best and being a kid is also the best way to learn a language is because we as adults we try to translate. And that is the problem. Because you think twice and you do it yourself, you're double in the job that you are supposed to do when learning a language. When I teach you in context, yo me llamo Franko.

Como te llamas tu, right? I'm saying that's my name and what's your name. I am from Peru. Yo soy the Peru. De dónde eres tú? And you see in context Peru, I mean come on. We all know that's a name of a country, right? We can figure it out from the context. Yo soy the Peru. And then also an image, because image is also important. We use that in our material. 

It's not like I start in a beginning beginning level like talking about Plato, philosophy and Spanish, right? You start with the very basic that people understand in context. I know everyone is the same and some people don't agree with that and some people want translation and that's totally fine. I do it when I have to. But in context we understand that of course when I there are some words that it's not easy to put into image or to get in context. I need to explain it or give in an idea what the translation in English. But for the most part I try I try that my students from the very beginning, even from the very basic phrases, they learn to think in Spanish. You just not speak the language itself.

Rick (32:16.167)

Okay. I know when we first met, and those are all good points. When we first met, we talked about how traditional language learning can involve just memorizing the vocabulary, studying the grammar, and translating sentences. But it sounds like you've taken a different approach, and I believe you said that you want people to learn the language when it's connected to real-life situations. Can you explain what that means? I mean it sounds obvious but maybe for the listeners, I I think that's a good point.

Franko (32:55.342)

Yeah, no, it's actually related to what I was just explaining to you earlier, right? Instead of telling I mean of course I do. I also use a lot of humor and I do crazy sentences in my classes like my grandma is painting her cuts, nails, whatever, so things like that. Absurd sentences which you can find in other platforms. 

Well in other platforms they're able they're not say absurd but they don't they don't make sense or in real life. But I try to make it more real life. What are the basic things that you wanna learn when you are learning a new language and when you're a kid is introducing yourself. Right? 

I am such an such and such. So that's what I mean by that, right? They connect to real life situations, like in introduction. Just imagine that you are coming to Peru and you need to introduce yourself to somebody in Peru who doesn't speak your language. Right?

So, I understand I start with that contour. So I say, okay, as I said earlier, hola, yo me llamo Franko. ¿Cómo te llamas tú? Yo soy de Perú. Yo soy profesor de Spaniel. I'm a Spanish teacher. What do you do for a living? 

So, trying to so because the other thing is the more you relate to you the more you learn. Because instead of you just pretending somebody else, like in the book or in the work, and in the books in my material that we create ourselves, that's another thing. I don't use books from other sources other than us. We create our own material. Of course, we need to recreate a conversation between two imaginary people, which is usually us, right? Franko is one of people in our team. But but when we use it in content we try to have people presenting us up. And that's something that one of the questions you talk about memorization, right? Unfortunately that's still part of the process.

Yeah, but no you memorizing yourself on your own. The expression that you need to learn to have conversation. But in context, let's say, and that's something I don't know if other teachers do it, but I won't mind one of my students I remember I started with classes of five people, then ten people, then all of a sudden have 20 people and and twenty five people in a beginning level when I was working in this school. And that time was the of course we didn't have online lessons, right? 

That was I said, how do I do this now? So 20 people they have to go each other asking the basic question that we have in class. What's your name? Where are you from? And what do you do for a living? And after that, they have to tell a third person, right?

Where is she from? What is her name? His name? What does she or he do for a living? Right? Those basic questions. People wouldn't understand that in context.

You need translation. I have some people asking me, yeah, I want to know the word, but I don't think it makes sense for me to explain to you This is the preposition, this is the verb. No, you just learn the phrase and you just know that phrase have a message and that's the other thing also part of my our philosophy as a flanco. Don't translate words. We translate ideas. We inde I w I I wouldn't even say translate is the best word, transfer ideas.

Because that's the best word. Translation is is more mechanical. But you transfer the idea because let's say in English, the first time I heard it, I'm making my mind up. I was like what? Your mind is going up? I was just looking at your mind going up on the wall. What are you talking about? You translate that literally, it's not gonna make any sense.

Right? You need to translate the idea of what is embedded in that phrase. In English phrase. And there are many cases, right? Like as some people want to late into Spanish WhatsApp. And they will say, que está arriba? Dude, that doesn't make any freaking sense in Spanish, right? You are translating literally what it is. Don't translate words. Transfer ideas. Right? I don't know how much

Rick (37:19.903)

Well, it sounds like that technique works quite well. I think when people are put in real, real life situations, they know there's gonna be a moment where there could be something difficult, but there's some of those basic happenings in your life that you know you wanna ask just a simple question and that I think taking that approach I think also takes the next step to get more into the more complicated part of learning the language, so to speak. 

I think what you do with the real-life situations, I think, is sort of a good platform to then scale upward. So, I think that's a very, very good technique. And I would think that many students have probably realized that's probably one of the better ways to learn a language, whether it's Spanish, you know, Chinese, Russian, whatever; I think when people are put in real situations.

Yeah, I want to be able to ask this type of a question or whatever when that happens to me. So, and again, I think as they take those small steps, it will come to them.

Franko (38:38.722)

I believe so. Carga eso hijo. I believe so. I agree with you. The the other thing is also the other thing also when I talk to my students is when I and that's the point where I mean think as a cat. Because when you're a cat first of all, you are not afraid of just interacting or saying what you think because probably you remember as a kid. I d I probably was five, four years old when I first I mean I remember clearly when I first knew shame and what shame was and I was aware of it. 

And I don't know if all adults can remember that now. So this is part of my allergies. I really apologize I'm keep saying doing that is part of my can get rid of that with the background in in filter anyway so I remember clearly that before that I would say five years old and before that I wasn't I mean embarrassed about anything or saying what I thought or I mean of course I mean I don't have a lot of memories but but but that's the problem. 

When you're an adult you have and that's actually one of your questions I believe, right? Why is for adults harder to speak a language or learn a new language? Many reasons, right? One of the reasons we have a full-time job for usually, right? In case the only job is to learn. Yeah?

It not know beside the fact that you have a pressure brain, they're open to anything, they're open to learn anything. I mean the other thing is that right? They they just wanna get your thoughts across and communicate and be able to communicate and understand how this home works.

And of course maybe adults are more patient with kids at the same time. And that when another adult is speaking a different language, right? And but the thing is all the other problem is I mentioned no the background that we have just the feel of being ridic of being ridiculed by not saying properly because we we think we need to speak it properly from the very beginning, but we don't have to. 

For me my main concern is maybe they don't understand me, yes, and that's a problem also. But I'm gonna make mistakes and usually the j as a learner of a different language and the job is not my job of it's the job of the other people, and then if people to try to understand you. I'm making the effort to speak your language. Come on, make the effort to understand me. Right? And the other thing, also, I believe we, as adults, know this much compared to cats. Right? And we wanna elaborate and we wanna come up with big words about our views.

And when I'm asking you is just your name and where are you from? You don't need to be so precise about it. I mean yeah, may people have some it depends where I'm from, it depends what I do, it's hard, I know, but just limit it. So you as a as a in English you know this, but in Spanish you know this. So limit your conversation to what you know and what that a kid does, right? Try to explain don't go don't try to think about this and with a grammar structure that doesn't work.

Just let me guide you as a teacher. I'm gonna show you the grammar that works in this case. But when people come more elaborate, they're like you know what? Just relax. Chill.

For now it's not time to learn that. Just be a kid. Don't care so much about what others are gonna say. Just try to be yourself and try to see to be a kid again. And learning a new language and trying to discover a new word. Because a new language is a new word, it's a new way to see the world. I'm responding to you questions.

Rick (42:48.211)

Yeah, I think, in how you've explained it, I think with a child, you know, they have this sweet innocence. They haven't really been exposed to the life out there that they're going to encounter down the road. Whereas an adult they've they've been through all that. So they have their biases, their fears, and I think as you put it, y you know, you have to walk into this.

That yes, it's something new, you're gonna make mistakes, but you know, you learn from those mistakes. And I think sometimes making a mistake is gonna help you learn even more than if it became just too easy, you know, because you can then learn how to overcome those fears and tackle it because you realize, as you know, when you start from the beginning and then you look at the very end and you realize.

I've done this. Well yeah, look where you were before and look where you are now. Wasn't so difficult, was it? But you conquered it. And that's what a child does.

Franko (43:55.383)

Exactly, exactly. And the other thing is also part of the philosophy and an actor, right? Because when you learn a new language, you're just pretty much adopting a new personality as well. I mean you're the same person of course, right? And of course what is gonna be the main background is gonna be Spanish in my case, right? Because that's my mother tongue.

I'm gonna have a this thick accent in Spanish when any language I try to speak, of course, right? And that's so refined. Nothing I can do about it. That's something people you're not gonna speak like me Spanish. They c they wanna do it from the very beginning like me. No way. Like I'm not gonna speak English like you in my life either.

So, you need to assume that right? What our flaws are and what are what what our forte or what our virtues are, right? So that's the point. Of course, when I learn English I also need to get closer to a native speaker for people to understand me. Yes, I get it. But I understand I have to also understand my limitations. And limitations are part of our life, but we can succeed in everything, right? That's it. You need to understand.

Rick (45:11.189)

I remember earlier you had mentioned we were talking about something along the lines that you consider yourself responsible for perhaps only one percent of a student's success and the rest belongs to them. I mean, I found that very interesting, but can you define that a little bit more?

Franko (45:33.178)

I think that what I said before is right, but I think that's incomplete. Why is it incomplete? And I and I like the way you put it and I believe that's why made me think a little when I was reading going through the through the summary you sent to me the questions today. 

Yeah, I agree with that, and I still endorse it because I agree with what I said. I said it. But also at the same time I'm responsible for hundred percent, almost hundred percent of my student failure, if anything. Right? Why? Because I have different experiences with different instructors and different things, right? I did mention it before. I’m a dancer. 

I'm also not professional dancer. I'm also a musician and learn I'm still learning how to play the guitar. I it's been a few years. I sing too. I love to sing. I don't have a the most beautiful voice but I guess I'm okay. And the reason why I start doing this is because I want to I wanted to to be part of what I do because language is culture that I know that's one of those one of the questions, right? And music and dance is part of your culture. And that's what I do. That's also part of my philosophy. I share my culture. I don't teach Spanish, right?

And when I say that, yes, because I want my students to own.

They come to me, they thank me because I'm I was able to help them. Yeah, I'm happy they do that and of course it makes me feel like man god I'm doing the right thing, right? But at the same time I say you know what? The effort was yours. The only thing I did was to guide you. To guide you and to tell you this is right, this is wrong.

And I would say ninety-nine percent of the work is yours because you were the one doing the homework; you were the one making the effort in class or beside or outside the class to practice, because that's the other thing I say: just be honest. Once a week the it's not gonna be enough. One hour a week is not gonna be enough. When you learn your first language. 

That's a lot question that we talk later. How long does it take you to learn a language? When people ask me that question. How long does it tell me how long did it take you for you to learn your native language? Five years? Six years? Seven years? Maybe? Maybe seven years. In my case, in most cases, right? Seven, eight years, you just are conscious of what you do, you make mistake, you know your language properly. And and the other thing is you were immersing the language twenty-four seven.

So, think about it learning a foreign language. You are now in the in a culture where they speak the language and you're doing one hour a week. So just do the math. How long is it gonna take you? So

That's the point, you know and in in and not as disclaiming from my side, it's just being honest with you. Right? I mean Chinese, I've been learning for six, seven years or maybe or more now and basic and I'm barely talking like a five years old. Of course the Chinese is more difficult for a for a Westerner, right? Compared to other languages, right? English, Italian, whatever Italian, Portuguese and and French are much easier for us for the French speaker, right? Than English. And than Chinese of course. 

But so it's to say because it depends a lot of the person. How long you make yourself in a language, how long you study if you go to a Spanish speaking country. So it takes a while, right? So then then I guess that's your responsibility as a student because I cannot put my brain in news. And sound like a disclaimer, yes I know. But it's true at the same time, right? It's like my job is just to guide you, to give you the guide, to tell you. The other thing also, when it comes to linguistics, I'm not a prescriptive linguistic, I'm more like a or normative, right? 

You call it more like a descriptive because language what it is. There is nothing right or wrong. Well of course is it's wrong to say yo eres the Peru. It's wrong, right? There are things that we know is wrong is right. If the right thing is yo soy de Perú, but there are things that they can say differently in different languages because we want more than twenty-one countries to speak the language. We have our way to say it. No one is better than the other. They are just different cultures.

That's it is. Even within the Spanish language you can consider one culture. We have different languages. Even within Peru we have different accents, different ways to say things. In what is right in your context may not be right in the other, but that doesn't make it wrong. So the same thing, right? Coming back to your question, yes. 

I try my students to own what they learn and what they do and the effort they do to learn my language and also not take credit for it. The only credit I would take one percent or less because my it's just my job to guide you. 

What I would say hundred percent which I know that maybe people they don't there are people mean that the other thing I didn't want to teach in in the system because I want people to come motivated to class but they have to go to a college or I have to go to to a high school which I did or primary school or elementary school, they just they're somehow forced to study the language they have to.

So, in but on the other hand, when they come to me they wanna learn it, either because they have to do it in school, yes, still, or because adults they have to do it for work or because their wife, their husband, whatever, right? For whatever reason they wanna they wanna travel, they have a motivation. So motivation is also important. That is part of the ninety nine percent of the student requirement or or effort the student does to learn the language. Right? 

And what I mean by failure, yes, is that at the end, I believe there is no bad student; it's more about a bad teacher. Yeah, it doesn't mean I'm really good at what I do, I'm I'm I'm just saying that bad teachers are wrong and I'm the best. No, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that yeah, you as a teacher it's your job to do the best to deliver class and to teach students what they come for, right? 

Because I got different experience in dancing, right? I mentioned that what I mentioned mentioned dancing before in music. I have good teachers in music and dance and I'm still doing that. I have different dance from Peru usually from Peru because that's what I show in my school. 

Eventually we're gonna also teach that in Casa de Franko and only languages. We're gonna teach dances, art and what is culture, right? Music too, which is more Peruvian music or Latin American music and then

I had some experience with different teachers. I remember one teacher in California, in Salza teacher. He said something interesting in class. I was like in one of the first things he said in class, and to me, as a teacher myself was like a two, he didn't say that to be the student. He said something like I can't remember exactly his words but must but more on the line in the line of Yeah, you don't learn is because you are not good. Something like that. Which is really bad. You don't say that on the first day of class to you students. Why can't you say I s I not even depressing I will he like that sometimes something like that, you know? 

And like, why would you say that to students? Like you're just saying you cry you guys suck is because you suck, it's not my fault. You know, that's pretty much what you're saying. That's really sad. And I heard that too I'm Peru because I'm also doing dance and I heard that from one of the I never heard that teacher, but I heard one of friends saying that this teacher said that like no you don't say that. You don't say that to your students. You're not good at this. Maybe you're not good at this.

Rick (54:13.909)

Yeah, I think you said earlier on when we first met that you've learned how to speak Mandarin. And that's helped you understand how differently another culture can organize ideas. And I thought that was an interesting thought. Can you explain what you meant by that?

Franko (54:38.138)

Can you please repeat and elaborate more on your questions so I can

Rick (54:40.181)

Sure. You mentioned that you were learning Mandarin and that it's actually helped you understand how differently another culture can organize ideas. I hope I captured that correctly, but can you explain what you mean?

Franko (55:00.856)

Well it's hard though. But it's hard e because, I mean, maybe I need to talk about Chinese grammar, which I don't think I'm gonna be able to do now because I understand it. Yeah. English and Spanish there's languages they are basically subject verb object, right? Which is good. Many languages are like that.

In Chinese doesn't work per se the w that way, but it does somehow it does. Unfortunately, I cannot give you peer examples. I'm so sorry. Because that's how bad I'm in Chinese is still. But when they tell me some examples I was like, wow. They explain it to me maybe in English a little bit. Now I can I'm I'm I'm I mean it's interesting how now I'm able to think in Chinese, I understand.

But but when they try to translate into English literally I'll say like a please don't do it. Let me just understand this in English. Or sometimes I have to just go to Chat GPT and say why do they say that? Because some words they have different meanings or two meanings and and I don't know. Unfortunately if I if I remember an example I would tell you why. 

But I don't know, I you got me with a question, I'm sorry. Even though I I don't believe in that one of the things the example I gave you earlier, brother, to make my mind up, bruh. You don't have to take literally that expression, yeah, try to understand what it means. But I definitely had different examples that I don't remember now.

Rick (56:29.461)

That's all right. No

Franko (56:47.866)

Unfortunately, but yeah, learning Chinese made me think I remember one of my tutors when we were talking about freedom, he said something interesting. I wish I could repeat what he said, but that was interesting. Okay, I give you one example. Because I mean it's culture and is language. I was dating this Japanese girl back in college, and I was then a super senior already. 

And then I remember this cat he was probably a freshman at that time. Yeah. And he always would come to the front desk. I remember I was telling you I were at the front desk and then and then he would just say hey what's up Franko, how are you? Blah blah, we would talk all the time. He was a nice guy.

And I would run into him in some other places in on campus, right? In USF. That was a USF. In maybe a Djinn, maybe in some other conference room, whatever. But he will never say hi to me, or he will never, never make the effort to make eye contact.

West, right? Here in Peru, in the United States, we are more similar than that. You recognize someone from another place; you will say hi, how are you? And just go with your life. You don't have to spend an hour talking to that person because you know the person from a different place. But this case will never do that. Never make any eye contact. And to me that was rude, in my opinion, as a Westerner.

So, I mentioned this to the lady I was just dating at that time, and I said, You know what? I think he's good. And she asked me why. Well, I thought I explained to her, right? Well, I thought she was being rude. And she said no, that's not rude. She's actually being the opposite. She's being polite. I was like a how so? I mean here in the United States and any other country I've been, to you just recognize someone and you just wanna say hi, all right? I recognize you for some way.

No, because the problem is or the fact is that you're older than him. So in our culture, age is a very important factor when it comes to respect, right? And when you're at work, yes, you're at work. And he's saying hi; he knows you from there. But if you are in a different setting, let's say in the gym, being you older, he needs to respect your space because you are not at work.

You are the one who first has to say hi to him and have and make the eye contact and if he doesn't reply to you he's being rude but in this case you respect that I was like, what the heck I mean I of course what the hell I get something else but I was like, really I mean I didn't say what's wrong and that I get to my phone that is nothing wrong or right it depends on the context and you're interpreting what the culture is behind.

I give you another example also in Asian culture. They also learned from other podcasts later for some dude who was who was in in in China and he was telling some Spaniard Jeep who was telling his life in China was saying this thing. It was something similar that happened to me. 

Remember going to Chinatown in San Francisco for food all the time. I live close. Well not Chinatown per se, but there was a lot of Chinese restaurants nearby used in San Francisco. I call it mini Chinatown, mini China Chinatown. But it wasn't Chinatown, right? So in a lot of these places people you know in in our culture, in in American culture, especially in American culture, more in Peruvian culture, a client is a client, you need to take them.

Talk to them nicely and always smiling. Mmm maybe because you are nice and maybe because you wanted money. Whatever. Right? But that's the point. You just need to be nice to your customer. And when I was going to these places I was like to me that was food, right? Okay, remote.

I didn't complain, I didn't say whatever, that's the way it is. Until some dude. He was Korean but he knew Chinese culture because he lived in China and I said no. I mean for them it's to me was it's really amazing what he explained to me, right? It is more about business. When you're in business you don't wanna be friendly.

Because a friend may ask you for a favor, may ask you for a discount, and you don't want that in a business.

And I remember especially this conversation I had with this guy when I laid it on. I saw a podcast on this guy, I said that he lived in China. And he was saying that he went to this place with his translators or his interpreter and and he was asking for things, whatever, asking how much is this chat or whatever and then

And then he just was just shopping around, right, asking for prices. And then he he she said to us later, the interpreter, Okay, tell him that we're coming back later. So the interpreter looked at him and left. The shop. And he was like dude, what are you doing? I just want you to say that to the person. And I said, You do you think she cares or he cares about that?

He only cares about your money. He doesn't care whatever you you wanna come back or not. He doesn't care about your nice words, Avaleka. Okay.

And I don't know that's the best way to put it how Chinese culture works. And when I get to China at some point I will find out. But I I I to me that was interesting, you know, how you see things different in different worlds. And it takes me to the point that some ta at some point I was actually ready to go to China in and Korea to teach English. It didn't work out the way I wanted, so I didn't it didn't it didn't I didn't do it. But at some point I hope I do it now when my when I get more fluid in Chinese of course I get to that and just learn more about it and think how it works.

Rick (01:03:49.002)

Yeah. I'm sure that one one day will happen. Let me ask you this one last question. you've covered a lot of ground here and you offered a lot of good insight to your techniques and you know, going back to people being afraid to learn a language and I mean people are gonna be listening to this podcast and you know, people who want to learn Spanish. But I'm sure you have some people who've said, you know, I'm too old, I'm terrible at languages.

And I'll probably just embarrass myself. Wha what would you say to them? Wha what what would be words of encouragement to to have a more positive view?

Franko (01:04:29.082)

I'm sorry, I'm laughing. What am I laughing? Because if you say sad if you say you say that you do think that don't do it. That's my that's my first thing to say. I say fresh in the air. I'm more than fifty years old now. and I barely started doing dance and music. Five years ago learning how to play the guitar. And I learned a lot. And I think I'm no I'm not ready for the Grammy of course and I'm not planning to do that either. But I definitely learned.

Even some people- I heard some comments from people saying I never thought about that way that being old or being a different age learning, even my brother, and yeah, because you're older, it may be harder. I didn't take it that way. I never thought that way. I remember my guitar teacher when I told him I was I wanna get a battery, right? He asked me why. 

What for? Because I wanna learn. That's it, I think basic, right? Why do you because I wanna learn. I mean, that's something I probably wanted to say earlier, but I think management. I never gonna stop learning. Never stop learning. Because we learn all our life. It's all our life we're learning. 

Even if you don't wanna, you just learn new things. In my case I'm no forcing because I like what I do. I like music. It was probably one of the skills I wanted to develop when I was a kid; same with dancing, but that didn't happen for many reasons. Maybe when I was younger I was more afraid to then try muting. And now I'm older I'm less afraid, you know I wanna do it. One of the reasons I learned I started learning music was because Chinese. 

Chinese is a very musical language even some people may not agree because it's a tonal language in which you say one thing with a different tongue. Ton is no accent. Tongue is that's tone, right? That's intonation.

So that's when I started learning music. When I heard that maybe people who dance music learn different languages, I mean it's easier for them to learn a tonal language, I decide to do music. And also the other reason is I want I do music with my students, especially with kids. I do a lot of music. I play the guitar with them, I play with them, I do kinesthetics too because we do movement, we do some games as I when I I used to as a kid. And dancing too. Because dancing is a language.

It's a type of language, the same with music. That's what I look at as a type of language. I just need to learn what is a language? A legend is a system that have norms, that have rules that you have to follow. And the same with music, with anything you just decide to do in life. And I would say, never stop learning. Never stop learning.

Rick (01:07:40.329)

That's great.

Franko (01:07:42.138)

Cause you always learn, whether you like it or not, you're gonna learn to lie.

Rick (01:07:48.498)

Okay. Well Franko, I always end the conversation with a what I call some speed round questions. So I want to ask a few of them of you and I'm curious to know the answers you're gonna give to me. 

So let me ask you one question here. What was the best live concert you ever attended?

Franko (01:08:12.283)

I've been to very few concerts in my life. I don't know if I can tell I have a bad. I've been only once. Well, no, maybe more than once, but pay once at least. Those are the best ones, right?

I lived in France for about a year. I did go there to study politics and, of course, French too. And also, why did I choose France? Because it's pretty much the center of Europe, right? So I can go to Spain, to Italy, to different countries in Europe. That's what I chose French. I mean France. Also because I mean I wasn't gonna go to Spain, already know the language. I wanted to learn I'm a language guy, I speak six languages, so I want to learn a different language.

And I chose French because of that. It was closer to Spanish. I knew Italian at that point a little bit. I could understand in Portuguese too. It was easier to understand for me. And I can I would have a conversation with some people from Brazil or from Italy without speaking any Italian or Portuguese. Why? Because I'm an A speaker of Spanish and if they speak to me slowly, we can understand each other, no problem. But French wasn't the case. So that's the reason I chose French. 

And then, being there, I always listen to music from all over the world. Different types of musicians, Peruvian ones, of course, too. That's my favorite, and then for the ones I play now, I do when I learn. And one of my favorite musicians is happens to be a Brazilian dude, Caetano Veloso. He also sings in Spanish, but of course most of his songs are in are in in Portuguese and that his what we call world music, right? 

I mean it's hard to determine what world music is but but he's one of the world music he's under that category, right? But he does a lot of Bozanova, a lot of jazz, a lot of Zamba, many things, right? In fusion. I mean, he even does Spanish-speaking music, right? B Peruvian voices or even Wapango from Mexico, etc. 

And so I was living in New in New Sense in France, I mean not in France itself but it was on a whole neighborhood close to Paris, the city Paris close to the to La Defense was one of the main one parts in in France and close to the To Eiffel the Effet Tower. And and I heard all this I don't know how I heard I think was passing by and I heard that Cayantana Veloso was performing for free. 

I was like shit I'm not gonna miss this. Even though he played a lot of Brazilian song I didn't know. I was with some Brazilian friends. I think I went with one Brazilian friends there and there are many new songs I didn't know. It was fun. It was really fun.

Rick (01:11:12.361)

That's great. what do you what do you wish you had more time to do?

Franko (01:11:24.558)

Live. You know why? You know why? And I'm not talking about for the sake living more yeah, but to live. I will say I will always remember E Dostoyevsky's phrase. I think it was in the Karamazov Brothers that he says that that we are more wor the human w mo we're more worried about finding the meaning of life and then forget how to live or to live for the same.

Rick (01:11:55.798)

That's great. You know, if your students were to write a book about you, what do you think the title would be?

Franko (01:12:05.337)

El loco. That my nickname on Facebook too as well.

That's my nickname since I was younger actually. You know, I was a kid. I always had this kind of loco loco face or whatever, you know, this attitude. I don't know. I'm okay. Many people just call me loco, that's my nickname. They just refer even some people I remember when I was in college, they would refer to me as not el loco, but just loco. Just it was my proper name. You know? That was interesting.

Rick (01:12:34.705)

Okay. I love that. Okay, let me give you one last question. What would you attempt to do if you knew you couldn't fail?

Franko (01:12:44.164)

Say it again?

Rick (01:12:45.279)

What would you attempt to do if you knew you couldn't fail?

Franko (01:12:52.442)

I'm sorry, can you explain that?

Rick (01:12:53.897)

Well l let's say you have an ambition that I want to climb Mount Everest, so that's what I wanna do, 'cause I know I won't fail. Do you have something along those lines that you would like to do in your life that, if you weren't afraid, you would succeed?

Franko (01:13:14.874)

To be good at it, even though I haven't done it.

Rick (01:13:19.956)

Yes.

Franko (01:13:24.1)

Definitely going climbing the Everest is something I wouldn't try because I'm just afraid of high. But it's it But regarding your fortune Yeah, I'm so afraid of high still. I don't know.

Rick (01:13:31.381)

Same here. That's a tough question, I know.

Franko (01:13:41.826)

I don't know. Can you help me to answer that? I don't know, I never thought that. I mean...

Rick (01:13:46.037)

Yeah, I we'd be, you know, it'd be like, you know, say you wanted to drive you've always had this ambition- you wanted to drive a race car, but you were afraid to do it. But you knew if you couldn't fail, would you do it? Something like that.

Franko (01:14:06.573)

Something that I haven't tried but I know I'm gonna be good at it. It's right that's the basic question, right? Yeah, then you want to maybe learn more languages? No. Because that's one of my passions and maybe I don't know. Try more different type of genres when it comes to dancing or or music because I'm passionate about it.

Rick (01:14:11.495)

And yeah, and that you would love to do.

Franko (01:14:34.2)

Maybe learn the battery; I think I can just not be great at it, but at least learn, because I got some notion of rhythm. I think I somehow, after more than five years into music, I learned I have some rhythm culture now, and I understand rhythm, or I can just pick it up easily.

Speaking language, I think that's one of the things I always want to try because at some point I was just fluent in two languages, right, English and Spanish. And then I decided to move to French to learn French. And maybe I already did it, right? Maybe I already done it. And then learn different languages and I'm not I'm gonna I mean there are some languages more difficult than the others, like in this case I need. 

I know Japanese is gonna be easier for Spanish speaker so that can be easy too for me. But I don't know, I don't know if I can think of anything else right now. Something that I wanna learn, and I don't know if I'm gonna succeed probably yet, would be swimming. I don't know how to swim. Yeah?

Maybe driving that I know how to drive but but since I got an accident I don't want to drive anymore just get back to it. Something something they just I wanna try and that's those had in my back at least.

Done it just now; you take it little by little. I w then a lot of things, you know, music, dancing, they were in my back at least two in language I done it. Then I have this tool around. You know a lot, you know how many things, well I'm fifty or something years old too. I'm not younger than you. I'm not younger like you. So yeah it's not like I also is a marriage or it's something is it's like I mean it took me years because I live more years.

Rick (01:16:14.197)

Sure. No, that's fair. That's fair. Well, Franko, this has been a very, very interesting conversation. I I love how transparent you are with your thoughts. And I think that's what speaking with you has been so interesting. I feel like I could talk to you for hours because you y your insight, what you've learned so much over the years, your ability to overcome obstacles and being where you are today.

That says a lot about you. So I think that's something that you you should be grateful that you've accomplished all that because I I think it's you've you really have earned it. So but so I want to thank you for for taking the time. And I also want to thank the audience who have listened to this conversation and I hope you have enjoyed it as much as I have. And take care and we'll talk to you soon.

Franko (01:16:57.466)

Thank you.