Interview #25 Tracy Pullman: Reinventing Yourself and The Power of Career Networking

Rick Barron (00:00)

Hi everyone, I'm Rick Baron, your host, and welcome to my podcast, That's Life, I Swear. My guest today is Tracy Pullman. Tracy will be sharing her journey that many of you have confronted. It's the journey of what happens when the career you've built suddenly disappears, and you're left staring at a blank page with no roadmap, no safety net, and no choice but to reinvent yourself. 

After being laid off, Tracy found herself piecing together freelance projects while still holding on to the idea of traditional employment. But what started as a bridge between jobs soon became a bold transformational leap into entrepreneurship. 

Now Tracy will share the days of uncertainty such as landing her first client in an industry she knew nothing about, dealing with imposter syndrome, navigating the mental health challenges that come with building something from scratch. She shares how crafting a 90-day outreach plan changed everything for her, what she learned about treating herself as her own client, and why freelancing gave her a sense of control and security she never found in corporate life.

This isn't just a story about starting a business. It's a story about resilience, reinvention, and the courage it takes to bet on yourself, especially when the world tells you to play it safe. Now, if some of you out there have been where Tracy is, or maybe have to confront it one day, then this conversation is for you. This discussion is honest, uplifting, and packed with wisdom for anyone standing at the crossroads in their career.

Please join me as I have my conversation with Tracy Pullman. Tracy, welcome to the show.

Tracy Pullman (02:04)

Thanks for having me, Rick. What a great intro. I really appreciate it.

Rick Barron (02:08)

No, no worries. Don't worry. Again, I think from what we had discussed earlier, I think as we talk today, and I'm sure a lot of people out there are going to say, yeah, I've been there. And oh gosh, is this what I'm going to have to face when it does hit me? 

Because I think for the most cases, some people realize they're entering a new world that, yeah, you have a job today and then you lose it tomorrow. And it's like, yeah, you're really going to have to hustle now to get back into the race. So, if you could, though, for the audience, give us kind of a brief overview of who you are, how you got into high tech, and where you are today.

Tracy Pullman  (02:51)

Yeah, so my name is Tracy Pullman. I live in San Jose, California. I have two teenage boys and two dogs, and I'm originally from Chicago. I moved out here to California right after college. I had gotten up some web development skills when I was in college as a side hustle. And when I came out here, those skills were really needed. 

And I got a job as a contractor as a web developer at Apple. And that from there, web development became web marketing, and then that became broader kind of digital marketing and from there B2B marketing. And that's how I kind of got into my career. I was an econ major at University of Illinois. So ⁓ not exactly the path I thought I was headed.

Rick Barron (03:42)

Now, when we first spoke, you talked about that day that you got laid off. What went through your mind when you realized that this time it's going to be tough to kind of get back in the race? At least it wasn't going to be straightforward, if that's a better way to put it.

Tracy Pullman (04:02)

Yeah, it definitely did not sink in initially. I got laid off two years ago, I think to the day. But it did not sink in initially because I didn't know how bad the market was yet. You had heard about layoffs and things like that. But I had never really encountered having a hard time finding a job. So probably I would say I got laid off January 2024.

By March, it was pretty apparent that this was gonna take a while. And so I was preparing myself for that. And in that preparing, I decided to just ⁓ kind of spin up a website and put myself out there to do some project-based work. And my thinking at the time, I did not know I was really starting my own business and that was the path I was headed, but my thinking at the time was just let me do some project work on the side while I'm looking for this full-time work. And that was the extent of my thinking. So, I just put it out there, posted it on LinkedIn, probably messaged 15, 20 people, and ⁓ that was pretty much it. And I didn't get any real traction until a couple of months after that in May of 2024.

Rick Barron (05:18)

So, when you started your journey though to look for that next job, excuse me, did it strike you as like, why is this taking so long? I mean, usually I can just get this job, okay, maybe two, three months tops, but now it's going much further than I would have anticipated. What went through your mind during those moments?

Tracy Pullman  (05:41)

Yeah, well, it's interesting because I had been laid off. I think that was 2017, something like that. And it was right after Thanksgiving, and not the greatest time to be laid off right between the holidays. And it took me a solid three months to land a job. And I remember the time that felt like forever. 

And I was getting a little worried about cash flow and things like that, but in hindsight, it was like, that was pretty quick actually. So, I think that's why, you know, when March rolled around, I was realizing, okay, you know, you can just tell by, you know, one, you're not getting recruiters reaching out to you. 

Like you had, like I had three, four years prior to that. you know, you were getting very little bites. I was probably getting one bite a month kind of thing. So it was, it, was pretty few and far between.

Rick Barron (06:13)

I was very curious, though, when we first started to chat about having this conversation. I loved the title of what you call your organization, Giddy Up Marketing. How did that come about?

Tracy Pullman (06:54)

I don't know. think I just, you know, I think I was just thinking off of, you know, level up, let's go, right?  Yeah, kickstart, right? And I was thinking around those terminologies. And I just really thought about, yeah, let's go. How else do you say let's go? It's like giddy up, you know? And I don't know. I like the little emoji with the cowboy hat. So, probably had something to do with it.

Rick Barron (06:57)

No, that's cool.

I love that. I noticed when you called out about when you first got into your first role with your job being self-employed, it was in cybersecurity, and you said you had no background, yet you got hired. But then in parallel, you said you felt kind of guilty, you know, imposter syndrome. So

There are those two questions, but the person who hired you anyway, what do you think they hired you for if they felt like, well, no background, but I'll still hire you?

Tracy Pullman (08:02)

Yeah, it's interesting. that first client came through a referral from someone I worked with at a previous job. They had been doing freelance work for this client and they had taken a full-time job and I think wanted to give this client a soft landing. So, I honestly feel like it was timing. 

They had probably seen my post two months prior and they reached out and said, you would you be interested? And I said, absolutely. So, they made an introduction. And yeah, the CEO, he, his biggest reservation, which he said, you know, vocally outright was just that I didn't have any cybersecurity experience. And, you know, there's no denying that, but it was, we agreed to do a pilot project and it was, it was basically a pitch deck that needed complete reworking storyline, look and feel, layout, all of it. 

And so, I worked on that project and I remember thinking while I was in doing that, just thinking, you know, having that master imposter syndrome that you that you mentioned. But I just told myself, just, you know, do your best, put your best foot forward. And if it works out great and if it doesn't, it's OK. You know, it's a great it's great experience, great learning. 

And so, you know, I I took that project through probably spent about 10 hours on it and I presented to him and he really liked it. And so, he took a chance on me at that point because he thought he saw that, you know, I could pick it up, learn it, tackle it and move forward. And I think a lot of us, mean, whenever you move into a new industry, I can only speak from the marketing standpoint, but you do have to learn a new product, possibly a new industry as well. And, you know, yes, that's a little bit of a learning curve, but it's just part of what we do as marketers is learn the space, learn the audience, learn the industry, learn the market, learn the buying signals, all those types of things, right, to be successful.

Rick Barron (09:58)

So, to a certain degree, you already had the skill sets. It was just a different, as you said, product. So, I think to that end, was quite the advantage on your side that you have that. 

So, I guess that's a good learning point for anyone who's out there that if they have an opportunity to take on something, even though they think they don't know it take a stab at it. You never know because it could be something that you find, wow, they're going to give me a pilot program. 

They like me, but you know what? I really liked this, this type of role. I really liked this environment. I liked this topic. I liked this product, you know, and you are then surprised to know that had I not taken this chance, I'd still be looking. So I think like to your point, I think you just gotta you know, throw the spaghetti against the refrigerator and see what sticks. 

Now, from looking at your LinkedIn account, I see where you do a lot of interfacing with people. You've had opportunities to be on the stage, so to speak, I guess, to give presentations with other fellow people in marketing. Did you just take that on your own to help? Like, okay, let's see if I can get my name and voice recognized throughout the industry, so to speak. 

So that way they can say, hey, I've heard about Tracy. yeah, there she is right there. And I like what I'm hearing, what she's posting. Was that something you took on as a means to help you get to where you are today, and maybe beyond?

Tracy Pullman (11:52)

Yeah, so in my first year in business, you I mentioned how that I got the first client and the next two clients I got were also in the cyber security space and they were referrals from the first. So, I would say my first year in business, all my clients basically fell in my lap. I didn't work very hard to get them. 

And so, it wasn't until this, well, actually 2025, my second year in business that I had to really dig deep and ask myself if I had been really treating myself as my own client. And the answer was I hadn't been, because I had been just relying on these great opportunities just kind of fall in my lap. 

So once I really committed to driving new business and really focusing on this business and trying to grow it, which meant I also decided not to continue looking for full-time work, I was doing things like doing outreach to my network trying to get out there and network with other people, starting to participate in events locally and nationally. 

And what I do for my clients is one of the big levers for lead generation is around events, is around creating content. And so, I knew that I was as uncomfortable as it was for me to do these things, including public speaking. It's like, I'm going to have to do this if I want to drive new leads in new business. And so, the very first thing I did was I had attended this webinar by another fractional CMO who basically lifted the, pulled the covers back on her business. 

It is super, super transparent. And most people on there were also fractional CMOs or aspiring fractional marketers. And so, I mean, she really pulled the covers back and people appreciated it. It was very educational. She wasn't selling anything to any of us. She was just being in service to the community.

She really pulled the covers back and people appreciated it. It was very educational. She wasn't selling anything to any of us. She was just being in service to the community.

And I was so inspired by this webinar that I decided to host my own. I did, you know, I ended up calling it going out on my own. And I think I had like 50 people register for it and about 25, 30 people show up, which I thought was pretty great for my first. And yeah, I did exactly that. I pulled back the covers. 

You like, just like the other person's webinar I attended, there was no sales pitch in there. It was really this selfish endeavor of me wanting to practice public speaking and to speak about my own journey is the most comfortable thing for me to speak on. So it seemed like the easiest way to segue into that. The second opportunity I got was this local event here in the Bay Area called Bay Area Connections.

And I learned about it through one of my networking groups. And I went on there to go check it out. And I saw that they were looking for speakers, somebody on a panel and a marketing panel, marketing power panel, they called it. And so, you know, it wasn't a big investment. It was a little bit more than what it would have cost for me to attend the event. And I thought, this is a sign, you know, do it. 

So, I did.  Man, I was nervous, so nervous. I sat up there on stage and, you know, that was my first time in person with a microphone in hand. And so, yeah, and now this opportunity came along with you, Rick, and I'm super appreciative, right? So, I keep trying to these skills of putting myself out there. So, thank you.

Rick Barron (15:45)

No, no worries. Now I want to go back in the course of what you've been saying. You've been bringing up a word that I think some people hear, but they don't take it to heart. Networking. And I would imagine over time you've got to meet a lot of people and people that you're meeting now. What do you find to be the gem of not only networking, but how to network. 

That way, I want people to understand, mean, at least from what my experience is, that networking was so key for me that what I did was I made a habit of always going back to people I used to work with just to say hi when I was still working to let them know, hey, I didn't forget about you. It's just on a touch base. Let's have coffee or something.

But I think for me, networking is so key. I think some people kind of missed the point today, who don't think it's worth your while. Don't go back to people just when you need them. So, how do you look at the world of networking? Because it seems to be working quite well for you.

Tracy Pullman  (17:11)

Yeah, I think, you know, when you're in corporate America, a lot of times you end up getting a little complacent with the networking, you know, you because you're you socialize with the people you work with and you kind of don't hit up your network again until you know, you need to find another job. We're all guilty of that. But yeah, what I've learned, a couple of things, it's to be in conversation, you never know where that conversation is going to lead. 

And to go into that conversation without expectations, just to come in with curiosity. That's really helped me to, and I didn't start out that way. When I started networking, there were definitely more expectations in there because I was trying to build this business and I had these goals and whatever. But over time, you just learn to just be there, be present, be in the flow and be curious. And that's really worked well.

But what I have to say is the networking both online with networking groups as well as in person has been so energizing. It is what has lifted me out of some of my darkest days on this journey. It's these new people that are basically strangers that I'm meeting that are also on the same path. And we are both open to conversation. We're both open to connection. 

And we are open to learning from each other. And so, when you go into these conversations with that open mind and open heart, you know, you take away something from every conversation you have. mean, I have every single conversation has been beneficial to me. And I'm probably at the point now where I'm in conversation, basically networking, you know, two to three, sometimes four times a day, I'm having these what I would call coffee chats.

You take away something from every conversation you have. Every single conversation.

Sometimes they're in person, most of the time they're online, but I generally have my cup of tea or my coffee next to me. But it's just so energizing. It's really what's keeping me going. And it sure beats having, when I think back nine months ago or so, when I was a little bit twiddling my thumbs with my days. And now I'm very active.

It's just so energizing. It's really what's keeping me going. 

And I'm in conversation multiple times a day having meetings just like this, not always being recorded to publish online, but it's great. That’s been the real benefit to me, the energy I get from it.

Rick Barron (19:50)

That's great. In the people that you've met, and you don't have to mention names, has there been a person or a few persons that you built a network and realized, my God, I am so glad I came across these individuals. What would that be? What did you learn from them?

Tracy Pullman (20:14)

So many, so many. think right now I am probably in conversation, like I said, it's two, three people a day, and it's been like that for the past six months. So, whatever the math is on that, how many people I've met with.

But I would say right now there are 5 to 10 people I have met through these networking interactions and coffee chats that we are collaborating with. mean, we are, might even be more than 10 people, where we're trying to find ways to partner together, we're trying to find ways to build content together. 

So, we're just open to opportunities. And that's really kind of the next phase of what I would call my business is, you I was doing the solo thing, the really solo thing that first year, the second-year solo thing, but starting to step out, you know, and get out there. And this year, it's all for me, it's about partnering and collaborating. I mean, this year it's all for me.

The only way I see at a certain point to scale your business is to partner and collaborate. So, one of the things that I've been really looking at, because I started out getting up marketing offers, basically fractional marketing services, consulting services and advisory services. So that's kind of the space that I plan. I was doing when I first started out, I was doing everything to not set a strategy all the way through to execution.

I see a certain point to scale your business. And I was doing, when I first started out, was getting everything stupid to not set strategy all the way through to execution because I could, you because I could.

I can get in there and build out a drip campaign or do whatever. But as time went on, you know, that where I want to play is more on the strategy side on, you know, on the advisory side, on the leading coaching, building marketing machines, building repeatable processes and less on the execution side. 

And so, what I'm really looking for, and I found some really great potential partners, is finding somebody who can be that execution arm that I can partner with and go to market with. So that's what I'm really excited about in 2026.

Rick Barron (22:16)

Good, good, yeah, brand new year here. Now, I call out in the introduction that as freelancing you've discovered you have a better sense or more of a sense of control and security that you never had in corporate life. What does that mean to you and what should the audience take from that?

Tracy Pullman (22:47)

Yeah, so somebody in my network, he's an agency owner. He had said something like this to me in one of my coffee chats that he found that, you know, being in business for yourself is more secure than being in corporate America. And so that just piqued my curiosity right there. I was like, what's that all about? Right. 

And so he said, if we think about it, you know, we're we diversify our investments, you know, our financial advisors or whoever we work with, you know, to invest, you know, in stocks or real estate or whatever. We we are always making sure we're doing that, that we don't have all of our eggs in one basket, so to speak. But yet we don't diversify our revenues. You know, a lot of people don't, especially people that work, you know, in a full-time job in corporate America. And so that was really what he was trying to point out is when you have multiple clients, you are diversifying those revenues and one client goes away, you're okay, right? You can keep going. And so, I really love that perspective. 

And the other thing that has made it a bit more, you know, secure in a way for me or in control, I would say more so is that I did a lot of cutting back on expenses in the last two years, year and a half that I've been out on my own. 

And that was hard for me. mean, things like getting rid of my house cleaners, getting rid of my gardeners, changing from a PPO to an HMO, you know, to save myself $800 a month just in that one change, you know? But I have been on a PPO my entire life.

You know, to think like, wait, can't pick my own doctor. can only, you know, that, that was just a foreign concept to me. So, I did make these changes and those changes elicited more control for me. mean, I, all of a sudden it's like, can make this work. And I don't know. It just gave me more freedom in some way. 

And so that's been, but that combination of thinking of just kind of moving away from the traditional mindset of how you work and how you bring in income, but then also what we are in control of in our own lives. And the big thing that helped me take those steps was reminding and telling myself, this is temporary. If I thought that was forever, that would have been way, way scarier. So, knowing that one day I would hire back my house cleaners was like, okay, I can do this, I can do this.

Tracy Pullman (25:33)

So yes, one of my goals is to hire about five house owners this year for sure. And that's and that is one thing I'll say that, you know, even if tomorrow I started making, you know, the amount of money I was making when I was in corporate America and I felt like I had that, you know, that safety net and that income, there's a lot of things that I would not ⁓ I would not put back in place. It's like I've lived without this. I don't need it. So I think all of it was was a really good exercise.

Rick Barron (26:21)

Sure. Yeah. I mean, from when you started going through this journey, it seems like you've got a hold on things right now. Okay. It may not be everything that you wanted, but I think from what happened to where you are now, what are some of those attributes that you learned about yourself that I, you would say, well, I never thought I could do this, but I did it. What could you share with the audience? That would make them understand if you get to this point and some you probably will think about these moments, but here's what you can do to get out of that rut.

Tracy Pullman (26:58)

Yeah, for me, it was taking on one scary thing at a time. I had a friend of mine years ago after my divorce, and I was going through a lot of hard mental challenges coming out of that. She had this theory that if you tackle hard physical things, it helps you overcome the hard mental things.

And I thought, that's interesting, you know, like I'm, yeah, I'll give that a try. Why not? So, we did. And the first thing she took me to do was rock climbing. And I did not like rock climbing, but I did it, you know, and I tried it. And the second thing she had me do was go surfing. And I never had any desire to go surfing. 

I'm not really a very good swimmer and I don't like cold water, but I have to tell you being out on that board in Santa Cruz out in the middle of the ocean looking up at Westcliff, something shifted and I was like, this is awesome.

And I can't say that I'm a surfer. I'm still a complete novice, but I've been a handful of times and I've taken lessons. So, I hope to do more of that. But what I loved about this was this tackling of scary things. And that's what I did with my own business was I tackled one scary thing at a time. And this started about six months ago. It was last summer. So, it's pretty recent that I started really, you know, and this started about six months ago, it last summer.

And the first thing I did was do a 90-day outreach plan, which I, you know, it was just something I made up and committed to myself, which was to reach out to five people in my network per day for 90 days. And I did that. And probably two months in, one of those conversations turned into a climate. So that was super exciting. And that was the proof point that this is working.

And probably two months in, one of those conversations turned into a format. So that was super exciting. And that was the proof point that this is working.

Tracy Pullman (29:05)

The second thing I did about a month after I started the 90-day outreach plan was I started to put myself out there more. I started to write blog posts and post on LinkedIn more. About a month after that, the third thing I did was go out and start going to networking groups, like physical meet in person networking groups and started meeting people that way. And then the fourth thing I did was ⁓ started public speaking. And I did that, webinar I mentioned.

Tracy Pullman (29:36)

And so that to me is, know, maybe that's a little aggressive, it's like, you know, these big four scary things in a four-month timeframe, but that's not the point. It's like just picking one thing that you can do and just start doing it. And the thing I will say about every single one of those things that really scared me and I had a lot of fear around, they do get easier once you start doing them. 

And so that has been super encouraging. Because once you start doing it, it's just like, OK, this isn't a big deal. I'm just getting in conversation. I'm going to this networking group. I'm introducing myself. I'm getting on this podcast with Rick. I'm just going to pretend I'm in conversation.

Rick Barron (30:26)

That's great. You said a lot, a lot of things so far and a lot to digest there. But I guess for someone who eventually is going to fall into this role of, gosh, I had a career, now it's gone. And the world is completely different. The landscape is very, fierce. If you told them to go to the whiteboard and say, look,

Okay, you've been out of work three or four months. Nothing's panning out. I know you talked about your nightly plan and you mentioned a lot of good nuggets there, but if you had to tell them, look, here's a quick plan of what to do, what would be some of those attributes of here's what you need to start doing such that you can then get a sense of, okay, I have a plan and I have to stick with it.

But this will get me going and I guess get my mind off of like, well, today was just a complete zero. Now what do I do tomorrow? What might that be? Maybe some, you three or four. Start doing at least these and then as you say, giddy up.

Tracy Pullman (31:41)

Exactly.

You know, the very first thing I would tell people to do, and this goes for people that are more introverted as well, because I have talked to some friends that are just like, yeah, I don't really, I'm not really comfortable getting out there and going to networking groups and things like that, is like, just try to get in conversation with people that you do know, right? Like, right out 10, 15 people, former bosses, anyone who liked you. 

Former bosses, former coworkers, whatever, and just ask them for a coffee chat. And again, it can be in person or over Zoom, that part doesn't matter. But that, I think, is more comfortable for people, right? Is just reaching out and saying, hey, would you be up for connecting? And if they're people who knew you and liked you, they're going to be super happy to hear from you. 

They're going to be like, you know, really grateful that you reached out. So that's the easiest place to start. And then from there, I would say, try to join some networking groups or, yeah, various online groups. There's so many people out of work. There's so many people that are in the exact same position as you are. And just to have that community of people, it can be a Slack group, you know, it doesn't matter. 

But it can be so, you know, it really helps when you feel like you're not alone in this, right? That there are other people in the same spot and then you can kind of bounce ideas off each other and maybe get together as a group or whatever. There's a lot of groups out there that exists like that. 

So, that would be another thing that I would recommend is just, you know, again, just trying to get in conversation with people you know, and then once you've done that, start expanding to people you don't know, but people that are in the same position as you. 

And then, you know, lastly, it's like, I guess really think about maybe take a journal out or something and start jotting down the things that you're interested in doing, the things that you're good at doing, right? And really start brainstorming so that you can be open to all opportunity that comes along. I think that's really important because at the end of the day, none of us have a crystal ball of where this is gonna land. 

I say I'm not looking for full-time work, but if somebody hit me up about a full-time job, yeah, I would absolutely listen to the opportunity. Because I don't just, I didn't know I was going to be here right now running my own business and trying to really build something. So how do I know that I'm not going to go back into corporate America and find a dream job there? think anything's possible. So just being open to that. And I think if you just start writing those things down and thinking through that can kind of get you in that open mindset space.

Rick Barron (34:33)

Sure. And I think with what you just telegraphed there and ways to interact with other people who are kind of in the same boat, I think it would demonstrate to a future employer that this person just didn't sit there and feel sorry for himself. Sure. It's tough, but they took steps to at least keep their skills fresh through interaction with other people. And it would strike me as, Hey, here's someone

Even though when everything is kind of in the ditch, they're still fighting. That's what I want in an employee, not someone who says, well, just give me what I want. Doesn't work that way. You're going to have to grab it by the ropes, so to speak, and you must stand up for yourself. No one's going to help you. 

And that's what makes those moments tough. And I think for some people, it's that emotional sequence of disappointments that I think really hurts people to feel like God, what's the point? know, no one wants me. You gotta erase that thought and realize someone out there does want you, but you're gonna have to fight a little harder for it. And today's world, it's gonna get worse.

Tracy Pullman (35:52)

Yeah, no, you're totally right. that would be, I guess, the fourth thing on the list would be honing those skills. There's so many free resources out there to take coursework, to learn from others. So yeah, I definitely think you see people all the time adding certifications and different things over LinkedIn. And yeah, I think that does make a difference. And it also keeps you busy and keeps your mind active, like you said.

Rick Barron (36:20)

Mm-hmm. So, as you've been going through this journey of yours, as far as since you've kind of started your own entrepreneur business,  what did you find to be the most empowering moment that told you, you know what, it's going to be tough, but I discovered things about myself, and by God, I'm going to make it. Was there any moment in your life that hit you?

Tracy Pullman (36:46)

Yeah, I would say I went to this event in New York in September. It's called Women Impact Tech. And I had been to the event previously in San Francisco as a sponsor with one of my last companies. And the event was high quality. I was very impressed by it.

And so I went out there online as I was kind of moving into my next scary thing to tackle you know, I was looking for different events that I could attend and I was like, gosh, I wonder if that women impact tech group is still around. And they were, and of course I had just missed the San Francisco event. 

And so I looked into the New York event and I started to figure out what would this cost me to go, you know, like in terms of airfare, you know, accommodations, ticket price meals, transportation, all of that. And I mapped it all out. And I hemmed and hawed on this for weeks. Just because it's, when you're working with a limited cash flow, it's hard to say, I should spend this money. But after really weighing the options, I decided I think the total cost was just over a thousand bucks. 

You know, I was going to use miles. was going to stay in a cheaper hotel. You know, I was really trying to figure out how I could do it on a budget. And that's pretty good for New York, right? And so right in Times Square too. And so I, you know, I just decided that it's the worst case scenario is I come back feeling super inspired and energized and ready to like push through the next level and best case, you know, maybe I get a you know, interview opportunity, or I get, you know, a new client lead or whatever, because at this time, I was still open and considering full time work. 

And I did go to this event, and it was super energizing and super inspiring. And I met so many amazing women. And I also picked up a client there. And yeah, I ended up talking to somebody at their booth, they were sponsoring the event. And I ended up talking to CEO and we just vibed immediately and I came back and we stayed in conversation and I started that job just a few months ago as a fractional CMO and it's been fantastic. 

And so that was a pretty pivotal turning point for me was making that bet on myself, listening to my gut and my intuition and just going for it. And it worked out way better than I could have imagined, right? I got worst case and best case scenario.

Rick Barron (39:33)

Well, I think that proves the point that by interacting with people going to groups of people to kind of discuss, hey, we're all in the same boat. Let's have a conversation over coffee. And someone may be talking to you and they say, wait a minute, didn't you say you got a degree in marketing? Say, oh, and what's the degree in? Cybersecurity. said, oh, I know someone who's looking for someone like that.

You know, it's one of those off-chance things that it could happen. But I think that's where people I think sometimes miss the point of networking and getting out there and having, yeah, you got to pay your dues to reinvent yourself again. But sometimes you just never know that the next person you talk to may be the door that opens up for you. And I think that's where some people, rather than being introverts, you know, it's like you have to get out of that shell because if you don't, you'll, yeah, you're not gonna get back in the race again.

Tracy Pullman (40:31)

Totally agree. have a good friend and former coworker who had these most amazing stories that were so inspiring to me. So he got laid off, I think, earlier this last year, and he went out on his own. He's in the video multimedia space. And he told me this story that he was selling some end tables on Facebook Marketplace and went to meet the person who was going to buy these end tables from them in his driveway.

He ended up getting in conversation with this person and now he works, she's one of his clients and he works a couple of days a week for her because they ended up just saying, so what do you do? And da da da da da, right? And then he had another story where he is at his son's doctor's appointment, sitting in the waiting room, sitting next to this person next to him, same thing, they just start chit-chatting and saying, you know, what do you do? And now this guy is a well-renowned photographer in the Bay Area and he started working for him. And I just, these, those two stories blew me away at the power of conversation and connection and being open to conversation. So, I, I love those stories and they remind me all the time to just be open-minded and be present and get in conversation as much as you can.

Rick Barron (41:41)

Have other people come to you as of late in the conversations you've had like through LinkedIn, your podcasting, where you offer this kind of insight to them as to like, well, this is what I've been going through with here is what I've learned.  Let me pass it on to you like, you know, pass it forward, so to speak.

Tracy Pullman (42:20)

I share this a lot. Yeah, I definitely shared it in the webinar that I did, the going out on my own webinar. And yeah, I I mention this to people all the time. And I feel like even my clients, know, lot of the stuff that I do in terms of advising and some of the recommendations I make are really back to the basics around, you know, a lot of it is sales enablement. It's how do you get in conversation? How do you create leads? 

Because sales can be a long game. It's a relationship game, right? And a lot of these, there's a lot of these great books out there that people continue to talk about that go back to those basics that, you know, sales is really about getting in conversation with people and building those relationships and maintaining those relationships over time and being in service to others. And so, yeah, I talk about this a lot and it's amazing how many people are and service to others.

Tracy Pullman (43:18)

And companies are looking for that silver bullet and it just, it doesn't exist. You gotta do a lot of different things. There is no silver bullet to just all of sudden the leads start pouring in, right? But one of the levers is definitely going back to basics and just building relationships, doing the exact things I'm doing in my own business.

Rick Barron (43:26)

So, with the clients you've been working with thus far, how has A.I. come into the picture?

Tracy Pullman (43:51)

Yeah, it's, I mean, it's completely integrated, you know, in everything, you know, all the, everyone is, everyone is using it in business that I'm working with and I am using it every day with everyone that I'm working with. And so, you know, it's, it's a companion, right? It's, it's helping speed things up and deliver things more quickly. I'm not, I don't think anybody right now is necessarily seeing it as a complete replacement.

Rick Barron (43:54)

Yeah

Tracy Pullman (44:18)

But we're all seeing it as just accelerating what we're able to do, right? And so, you know, even when I was doing that pilot project for that cybersecurity client a year and a half ago, know, A.I. was so useful to me to come up to speed on that industry and their product and, you know, the market that they played in. So just the learning you can get, you know, so quickly can just really accelerate.

Rick Barron (44:54)

Yeah, I think it's becoming one of those skills like it or not. Everyone's going to have to adapt to it. And I think rather than fighting it, learn it as much as you can, because I would think having that skill set, at least having a very fundamental understanding of how A.I. could work well, say in marketing or in finance and be able to explain it in such a manner that okay, now I think I'm getting the picture of what AI can do for our sector of the business because I think some people are beginning to wonder like, well, everyone's just going hog wild on this. 

But do they really understand how to utilize it to their advantage? And I think that's, you have various arguments to that end. I don't know what you've experienced thus far with your clients if they've had situations like that, like, well, how do we implement it? How do we incorporate it? What's really going to get us there by using A.I.?

Tracy Pullman (45:58)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think, you know, everyone's, for the most part, people have taken on the content piece with it, right? That one's pretty clear that, you know, yeah, it can help you create content, particularly, you know, best if you're able to feed it your own perspective and point of view. And then you can use it, you know, to kind of massage it and train it so it can understand your voice. You know, obviously, for editing, it's fantastic.

Rick Barron (46:06)

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Pullman (46:26)

But I think, now, areas where I've dabbled are really even on, you know, building out outreach lists, you know, scraping information from the web, using it to build out spreadsheets. And I mean, I built out a whole dashboard when I talked about my 90-day outreach plan. I used A.I. to, to customize that whole thing so that, you know, if I updated a row of the spreadsheet that I contacted this person, you know, it would change it, change the color of that row, it would add content in one of the other columns, it would put a notification on my calendar, you know, I had it do a bunch of things. 

And so, you know, some of the automation pieces that you can use are really, powerful as well. So ⁓ that's, that's what I found that it really sped up things from kind of like almost like a back-office standpoint.

Rick Barron (47:06)

So, we've covered a lot of ground here. 

What tangible piece of advice would you offer to someone? know, extroverts, introverts that, you know, if you can make it through life without having to go through these pitfalls, hey, you're golden. But for most of you, it's going to happen. And the technology is now making it even tougher. And what you've been through, what you've learned, what would you pass on to them?

This is what worked for me. It may not work for you, but here's something you need to understand going forward: when it does, you really need to take to heart the following.

Tracy Pullman (48:09)

Yeah, I mean, the thing that kind of comes to mind for me is that it's not all been an easy path. It hasn't all been, you know, puppies and roses, so to speak. I've had a lot of dark days, a lot of fear-based thinking, scarcity mindset, you know, and that can happen a lot for people who lose their job, and then they're in this difficult market, for sure. 

But that also happened after that, when I'm like in business for myself, you know, trying to figure this thing out. And so just to normalize that a bit that because I think, you know, a lot of times we just see what's out there online, we just see if you went out to my profile, you'd probably think, wow, Tracy's doing great. But you know, there has been a lot of tough, tough times, scary moments where I've had to dig deep.

Tracy Pullman (49:03)

And so just to stay the course and let yourself kind of feel and go through those emotions and know that that's okay. And then just keep pushing forward. Every day is a new day. For me, my funks only lasted a few days luckily at a time, not months and months. So that I was able to kind of pull myself out of it after a few days. 

But when you're in it, just keep pushing forward. Every day is a new day. For me, my fun will only last a few days, it feels like it's lasting forever. And so it's just really about staying the course and just picking up and keep going. 

It's not chastising yourself about what didn't happen, and you didn't meet your expectations. It feels like it's lasting forever. And so, you know, it's just really about staying the course and just, you know, picking up and keep going, putting one foot in front of the other and like, if you didn't do the thing you said you were gonna do, if I committed to 90 day outreach plan and I said five people a day and then I didn't do it yesterday, big deal. Okay, do 10 today. Okay, just keep going, right? And I definitely miss dates, you know? And then I would try to make up for it. So, yeah.

Rick Barron (50:11)

No, that's great. great. I think people need to hear that and you know understand that I think for me, like when I went through that time period, I had moments where, and I'm not ashamed to admit it, I cried because I thought, gosh, nothing is working. But when I look back on it, and I guess I could say that now, it made me more of a stronger individual than I realized. It's going to be tough. You know what? You're going to make it. And then when I finally did make it, I thought, OK.

Now I know what I need to do next time, know, God forbid if it does happen, but you have to know that there is a way out of it. May take a while, a long while, but you will get out of it. You'll find a solution. Whether you get back into the corporate world or you like, you know what? I'm going to start my own business. 

And I know some people who have done that and they're far happier about it. So, I think there are many ways you can look at this. So.

Tracy Pullman (51:08)

Yeah, I've heard that the real change and transformation in life comes when you're in the muck, in the darkness, right? I think we can all relate to that. And even though, that's where you see those big changes. So, you gotta have kind of like that crux, that hard point that you hit in order to rise above it. 

There are...good days, light days, exciting, energizing, motivating days ahead, right, for all of us.

Rick Barron (51:43)

So, many categories there. Okay, well, Tracy, I usually end the conversation with what I called on some questions that are kind of spontaneous and I shared them with you. So, I'm going to dive into the first one. What was the best live concert you ever attended and why? 

Tracy Pullman (51:46)

This one is so hard for me, Rick, if you knew how much live music I see on a weekly basis. Yeah, I love live music, I love festivals. So, I thought about this and I'm just gonna have to go with my very first concert, which was Skid Row. And so that was also my first CD. It was at the Aragon Ballroom in Chicago.

Yeah, it was awesome watching Sebastian Bach climb up, you know, the speakers and whatever. I don't know how my parents let me go to that concert, but anyway, it was fantastic.

Rick Barron (52:43)

What do you wish you had more time to do?

Tracy Pullman (52:54)

Probably hobbies and activities. I mean, I would love to have more time to go golfing or play tennis or things like that. Those have definitely fallen by the wayside as I have dug in on the business. No, no, definitely no mountain climbing, surfing, surfing, yeah. For sure, like those three hobbies. Oh, that would be so great if I could do that regularly. I would love that.

Rick Barron (53:05)

But what's your first paying job?

Tracy Pullman (53:22)

My first paying job, meaning, technically, I was a babysitter for a long time, but the first like real paying job was when I was a shampoo girl. Like, yeah, which is such a weird thing. I think it was like 15 or 16, maybe. I think it was 15.

But such a weird thing to have a 15-year-old girl do is like you're spraying like hot water on somebody's head and you're like, is that too hot? You know, like to ask that, like, is that, you know, it's just like suck one odd position. So yeah, I was the shampoo girl.

Rick Barron (53:49)

Ha, my god. You must have had some days.

Tracy Pullman (54:00)

I know, I'm like, sorry, they're like, oh, like, because I, you know, I'd get them in the eye or the ear or whatever. And know, I see you'd be like, sorry. And they're like, yeah, they're always very forgiving, but still, like, it's so uncomfortable.

Rick Barron (54:11)

Okay, so if your two sons wrote a book about you, what would the title be and why?

Tracy Pullman (54:22)

This made me laugh because I don't think it, so I think they would title it, if they were to write it right now, they would title it, My Mom, the Cornball. Yeah, that's like the new term. Like, I don't know if this is like, yeah, the teenagers, they're using the term corn bowl. Yeah, you know, maybe in 10 years, they'd write something a little more like that, which would make me feel good, right? But yeah, no, we're in teenage years. So yeah, they are like, mom, you are such a cornball.

Rick Barron (54:59)

Well, I think that kind of comes from the heart too. Okay, last question. And I've gotten some very interesting responses to this one. What would you attempt to do if you knew you just couldn't fail?

Tracy Pullman (55:01)

Yeah, this one is tough. Oh man. Yeah, I don't know. Okay, when I think on the business side of things, I think I would start my own company, like product company of some sort and build something from the ground up. That's what I think of there. 

On the personal side, I don't know, I've always wanted to like live abroad, live in Italy. I would love to like do that for a couple of years or something like that. So yeah, those are the two things that come to mind for me. Yeah.

Rick Barron (55:57)

That's great. Yeah, I've been to Italy. I've been to Portugal. And in both those two countries, I just found that the people who live there, know how to relax. I mean, it's amazing. I discovered that dinner doesn't start at five o'clock. It starts at nine. But no, it's just...

Tracy Pullman (56:10)

Right. The cultures are different.

Rick Barron (56:23)

…beautiful times both times with that I went there with my wife. So, so listen, I really want to thank you for taking the time to share your journey with the people who are out there who probably have been through these moments, and you know, hey, they may contact you as a result of this, and I hope they do. 

But, also the people who have not been through it and you know, hopefully, you know, some of them won't go through this, but unfortunately some will have to. It's just, you know, luck of the draw, so to speak but I want to thank you, you know for taking that time so I mean no worries same here and

Tracy Pullman (56:55)

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. So good to see you. And yeah, I'm happy to connect with anybody on LinkedIn or reach out if anybody wants to talk that is in the same position or thinking about going out on their own. I'd love to connect. So thank you, Rick.

Rick Barron (57:14)

Okay, so I always put the show notes out with the transcript once I put it onto my podcast website. So, okay, we do provide them your LinkedIn. Okay. Be happy to do that. Help you get contacts and to the audience out there. thank you for listening and taking the opportunity to listen to Tracy Pullman. I think she had a very interesting story to share with all of you. And to that, we'll see you soon and take care.