Interview #19 From Immigrant to Entrepreneur: Ashok Rajan's Story

Transcript, Aug. 14, 2025

Rick Barron (00:01)

Hi everyone. I'm Rick Barron, your host and welcome to my podcast. That's life. I swear. My guest today is Ashok Rajan, who arrived in the United States in 1991 on a student visa with little in his pocket, but a head full of ideas and a heart full of hope. 

His life journey embodies the very spirit of what we call the American dream. He worked many jobs when he got here while pursuing a master's degree. He was a mover, electrician, a tutor. He's even very proud of one job where he worked at the Waldorf Hotel as a crawl space commando. 

So fast forward to today, and Ashok is the founder and CEO of Pristine Data, a cutting-edge company helping organizations harness the power of clean, intelligent data to drive smarter decisions.

But beyond the boardroom, Ashok is a storyteller of gratitude. Recently reflecting on the 4th of July, how the United States embraced him not for where he came from, but for what he was willing to work for. 

We'll talk about his journey from immigrant to entrepreneur and what it truly means to build something meaningful. 

Please join me as I have my conversation with Ashok Rajan. 

Ashok, welcome to the show.

Ashok Rajan (01:43)

Thanks Rick, thank you for having me here.

Rick Barron (01:46)

No worries. Thank you so much. I've been looking forward to our conversation ever since I read your texts online about how grateful you were to be in this country and what you went through to make all of these accomplishments over time. I was just really taken by it. 

But before I dive in a little bit deeper, maybe perhaps you can give a little bit of an intro of yourself to the people who are listening and what you're up to today.

Ashok Rajan (02:15)

Sure, I couldn't do better than what you did. I'll try to keep it brief. As Rick mentioned, I came here in 1991 to do my master's degree. And then we'll talk about the juicier jobs that you presented. But basically, I started my career as a software engineer. I worked for a really great entrepreneur. I learned a lot of things.

And then gradually I moved to the customer side. I worked for companies where we did a lot of digital marketing. Very successful companies. Two of them, actually three of them were sold, were acquired by other companies.

I learned a lot through those experiences. My last job was with this company called Sixth Sense, which is in B2B intelligence. And then now I'm basically ⁓ trying to do my own thing with Pristine Data AI. Again, we're still in the B2B software space. And we're trying to ⁓ ride the wave of AI and see how we can provide go-to-market intelligence.

Rick Barron (03:22)

That's great. No, I like that. Now, when you came to this country in 1991, where were you prior to that? Where were you living?

Ashok Rajan (03:31)

I was in India. Actually, I was born in India. I grew up there. I had just, of course, the planning, like it takes about two years, two plus years to plan to come to the United States. So, you know, I was doing my bachelor's degree in electronics engineering from 87 through 91, and then I started planning this, you know, hey I need to go to the states. Probably about 88, 89. It took me about three years of work to get here.

Rick Barron (04:02)

Wow.

Now you said it took you two years of planning. What was involved? I never knew that.

Ashok Rajan (04:06)

Yeah, so  first of all, you have to go through, obviously you have to go through the college application process for the master's degree. But then at that point, and I'm sure it's true today, you have to take standardized tests. The most important standardized tests for engineering is something called the GRE. And, you know, so that's a minimum. And then, of course, because I came from ⁓ a country where it's English is not considered the first language.

You also had to do TOEFL. those were, it's test of English is a foreign language.

So that's a test. I also took a test of written English and spoken English. So, these are all standardized tests that were given and it just takes time. It's not about your diction or how you speak. There are specific things that they expect as part of these tests. So, each of them takes a while to prepare. And then the other point is that you have to remember that things, sometimes I laugh about this and I say how much we've progressed.

We used to write longhand letters to just get the application. So, we had to go to the US embassy and they had this, sorry, they had this very specific, you know, I remember a blue, what we call aerogram. And then you had to fill out this thing and we would send like 50 at a time and maybe five of the universities would say, okay, I'll give you an application. So that was just to get the application back. So, all that would take a long time. Just, you know, imagine like you're writing letters, you're waiting for those things to come. So that's why the whole process takes about, used to take about two to three years of preparation.

Rick Barron (05:48)

Geez, talk about having patience.

That is amazing. So, when you did apply, I know maybe this might sound like a silly question, but why the United States? Why not? Maybe I'll go to Europe, go to England, go to France. Why here?

Ashok Rajan (06:06)

Yeah, so.

One of my, you know, what I would call top five favorite books. I was thinking about this. I still have a copy and I will read it. It's a book called Cain and Abel, of course, based on the biblical characters, but it's actually written by Jeffrey Archer. And English, you know, I think it was knighted, he's served Jeffrey Archer now. And he's written many books. 

But I believe I read this maybe in middle school or something like that. It's a story of a Polish immigrant who comes to the United States and you know just after World War II it's all about how he struggles and then I was just you know I fell in love with America then the concept of the American dream it's all about you know he comes to Ellis Island and all the hardships that he has been through before and then he goes on to build a hotel and so, for me, forgive me Rick, but the fascination for America and what it represented was just there. I couldn't even consider any other country. It wasn't even part of my, like nothing else, no other country fascinated me so much saying, we'll open our doors to all kinds of people. But as long as you're willing to come in and work hard.

And I think we'll talk about this more. We'll give you opportunities. Don't expect guarantees. All of those things we talked about. So, I don't even think I had a second choice. All the choices. Yep.

Rick Barron (07:30)

Yeah, I mean, I know I totally agree. I think in part there are various sections in our country where people have been, you know, born and raised here. And I think how they are, you know, receiving the opportunities at hand that you almost take it for granted. Like, well, this is the way it's supposed to be.

You know, I'll give you that. But I think in part, some people overlook the fact that what you are obtaining here in this country cannot be overlooked because when you look elsewhere in other countries today and what people are facing, I think for some people are facing situations where they have no hope whatsoever. 

And I think some people kind of miss that. And I think they need to understand that people who come here, they see this country and I think still as a line of opportunity, I know that's a cliche, but I think people tend to kind of overlook that. 

Think it's not until you go to other parts of the world, and I've had a chance to travel and trust me, and I'm sure you've seen this, you get a whole different perspective of what you have. And I've always been very appreciative of that. That's why I think the text that you wrote, online about your appreciation on the 4th of July really, really hit me. But getting back to you, when you arrived here, you were already, guess, I assume you were already accepted to go into graduate school. Now, were you doing all of these jobs that we talked about earlier when we first met as you were going to school? was it during the summertime or?

Ashok Rajan (09:14)

That's right.

No, I was doing this as I was going to school. ⁓ I also had an assistantship. ⁓ what was called, I didn't get it right away. ⁓ It's called a research assistantship. You have to work with the professor and then they pay you ⁓ monies to basically work on some cool projects. I was doing that as well.

Rick Barron (09:27)

Wow.

Ashok Rajan (09:46)

But that was on and off. But yeah, these jobs that I, all the jobs that you listed were part of the, was, and I'm very blessed. I mean, I really feel, I wanna talk about that. You referred to the post. It's something that I meant to share with you. I actually went to the 4th of July parade, you know, they had a flag, know, they hoisted the flag, was right by the, there's a little lake here in Foster City.

Where I live, it was the perfect setting, you know, the afternoon and I think for the first time in, you know, 35, 40 years I felt emotional about the flag. You know, I just wanted to talk about that and then that's what caused me to come back and write it. I felt emotional but I felt, hey, this is a... And then, sorry, I know I will get to your question but I just want to share this. even everything that you said, you know, the...

Rick Barron (10:39)

No, no, that's fine, please.

Ashok Rajan (10:45)

I think America is the greatest country in the world. know that some Indian people may listen and say, how can you say that? Because again, that's what it is, right? Like how many countries can claim, or show me a country that can claim that they welcomed immigrants and gave them opportunities.

And then you see some of the greatest successes that we had. No other country has been this welcoming and then created, know, of course, immigrants have also contributed. I'll not get to that, but I just wanted to call that the reason I wrote was because I was in an emotional state that day knowing everything that's going on. felt, hey, you we need to talk about this. And so, I'm very grateful for this opportunity to talk some more. 

Sorry, I lost my train of thought with your question. Was that, okay?

Rick Barron (11:38)

It was about, you know, the opportunity that you found when you were coming here to the United States to start your journey, if you will, to, guess, where you are today.

Ashok Rajan (11:47)

Yeah, again, when I came here, at that point in time, it was clear that the opportunity was in engineering, because I already had a degree in electronics engineering. I was working in computer science, computer engineering in 1991, 1992. And again, we were doing lots of things that were cutting edge and learning different things during the time.

But that sort of was the journey that I had taken on to say, okay, you know, that's where the big opportunity lies. And then I had the right degree for it to proceed with. And then at least, and that continued. It wasn't easy after that. I still had to go through the, I remember I interviewed with IBM and then they weren't sponsoring the visa. And then, you know, I had to go through lots of interviews and so on.

But I would say that so many opportunities, Rick, again, I think sometimes, you know, even in my mind as I'm speaking about this.

At some point I wanted to go out. But the opportunity to actually meet great people along the way. We shouldn't always measure opportunities as time and money or opportunity as a job. Just the experience of these two families that were near and to my heart. One was my friend Mike Guida, who is Italian, Italian American if you want to call great, great family, first Thanksgiving and I have so much lasagna, was like okay, so grateful. 

And then to me, again, just the opportunity to open my mind because sometimes from the outside you look at it and all like, know, do they have family values, excellent family values. You look at this family, you're a part of it, it's a big, know, everybody gets together, all kinds of relatives. 

So just the opportunity to also meet great people along the way, maybe lucky, I always consider myself lucky because when I meet someone maybe who's a little bitter or who has a different of different sub-operative, I just say you know maybe you just weren't lucky to meet great people along the way. 

So, opportunities you know throughout I feel like I could say that, I worked hard for something, but in my heart, I feel like it was the opportunity to actually meet great people who lifted me along the way by word or by deed or so many, you know, we could get into a thousand some stories, but I think both of them are layered together along this process.

Rick Barron (14:25)

I can only imagine the people that were of such a huge, you know, influence on you, on your, on your journey. And I think going back to where you called out, you were working at the same time you were going for your masters, you know, having to have the discipline to split that time to work, hit the books, work, hit the books. How did you maintain your sanity going through that process?

Ashok Rajan (14:53)

Right. You know, I didn't think so much. guess the, if probably that's the first thing I would say is that you just, somebody clicked for me. Think I lost my father when I was 16, Rick. So even through the engineering degree, I think I had that. Maybe the first, in the first year of my engineering degree, something clicked in me, something fired.

You would say something fired up in me. I said, OK, know, no one's going to come to save you sort of thing. You have to just lift yourself up from the bootstraps. also the challenge is it's you against you. You have to push yourself.

And I think that was, I reflect back on it. It's much easier to articulate now, but I think I was always that way. That hey, how do I go push myself to the next level? And so, it was like, I was really focused. Once I knew I wanted to achieve something, and I'm still that way, probably at a noise, the people who are around me that I'm very driven, or they would call it different things. I would say I'm driven, but I can be intense. 

Rick Barron (15:58)

Well, having that attitude, I'm sure then I guess you never had any doubt in your mind that you were going to make it. You were going to get your masters and then take on the next step.

Ashok Rajan (16:26)

I would politely disagree. I had lots of doubts. want to, you know, this is, it's, so I did some martial arts too. So, during this time, in university, ⁓ that's what has kept me sane is working out. So, I would highly recommend this to people that, you know, mental toughness comes from physical toughness. When you're physically fit and then when you feel you can do certain things. 

But anyway, I have this story for you. The first sort of semester, we just did kata, which is floor exercises. And then you're still wearing your white belt. This is Seibu Kan Karate. It's a Japanese technique.

And then what happens is at the end of the first six months, the Sensei comes and says, okay, it's time for you to spar. I wanna see you guys’ spar, right? So, the first time we get into the ring, and then he put my, you know, I have glasses, he put another guy, we're the same size. 

And then the first round, which is like three minutes, we're just circling each other, we're not doing anything. We're just circling each other because we're too afraid to get hit, right? So, the Sensei keeps watching us. 

And then in the second round, he, again, we do the same thing. He doesn't make like in five seconds he jumps in and swiftly kicks his boat right and then he goes hey listen now you know it's it hurts but you can handle it now get in there that and then it was again very deep for me at least mentally that's how I think is if you don't get close enough to get hurt you're not going to get close enough to take a shot

So, if you don't expose yourself, the fear is always there. Like hey, if anyone tells you Hey, I'm not fearful or that's, I don't know. Maybe they have a different, I haven't met people like that. Most people are like, they acknowledge it. They say hey, it's good. Fear is good, pain is good. You just have to acknowledge it. And then you have to realize that everybody goes through it and you just have to learn to adapt to it.

Rick Barron (18:29)

Well, when you went through college for your masters, you said you worked a number of jobs. How many jobs you think in total you may have worked during that time period?

Ashok Rajan (18:40)

I want to say between eight to a dozen maybe, different types of jobs, least a dozen. I mean, could think of different things I did, but yeah, was a variety of jobs. was a variety of jobs because, many of these jobs would only, some of these would last a little bit, and then I had to, it wasn't easy managing, sometimes the courses were really hard.

Rick Barron (18:46)

Mm-hmm.

Ashok Rajan (19:11)

Master's level course is not easy in computer science. And sometimes the classes were really hard and I would be like, OK, I need something. And you can't just, in these jobs, you can't just not show up. You lose it. If you don't show up, that's how it works. It's a dog-eat-dog world. Sorry. You don't show up to work, you get fired. That's as simple as it is. They find something else to do, do what you do.

Rick Barron (19:12)

The jobs that you did, I know that I think you said they'd be assigned to you if I heard you correctly, but were there any jobs that you learned something about life in general that had an impact on you for what you were going to want and hoping to achieve once you got your masters?

Ashok Rajan (20:00)

Yeah, think the first, again, there was a change of mindset I had to go through, Rick I don't want to say it's because of an India or something. It's just how I grew up. Before my father died, we were quite well off. After my father died, it's a different story. As some would say, hey, you're under the top of the mountain and then you're put in the desert. I was, you know, so.

I remember there's this one job where I was working facilities in the gym. That was fine. I didn't have any problems. But then the manager of the gym, goes, hey, know, I needed to go clean the bleachers while the game's going on. You know, ⁓ this is the baseball field for Florida Atlantic University. I'm like, really? Like, right now?

Yeah, yeah, right now he goes like, you so that I just want to share with you that I had a tough time doing that because to me I could see that there were people that were my classmates that were sitting there basically like, you know, they're eating peanuts, they're throwing the shells and then, you know, I'm the guy that's doing it and I go, hey, like I'm sitting with these people in class, what's going on? 

But so anyway, I made a deal with this gym manager. said, hey, you know, wow, why he didn't understand this don't understand the life of it but I said hey why don't I come clean it tomorrow morning he goes no tomorrow they come to practice at 6 you know this stadium needs to be cleaned spotlessly clean so I said okay you know here's the deal I'll come at 3 in the morning I'll you know he says it'll take you about three hours to do this I said I'll come at 3 in the morning so I would actually go there at 3 in the morning I would be the only person that turn on the lights spooky as it is but I'll clean up because for me what I guess what I'm trying to share is dignity of labor. 

That was the big lesson that hey, every job is valuable. Every person that's working something, it changed my mind. Like, you know, I did it for a few days and then I was like, you know what, it doesn't matter. Everyone's going through some journey. And then I think that's really changed my point of view to even today. Like, hey, when I see someone cleaning the car or, you know, the person who serves you food or whoever it is, I'm thinking, hey, that was me. 

That was me not too long ago. You I don't forget that. sometimes, if they chat me up, even say, hey, don't worry about it. Someday you'll be driving a nice car and don't give up. Keep going. So, I think that's a big learning for me. It's a mental shift in terms of the job. I would call it dignity of labor. Every job is valuable. Every person is valuable.

Rick Barron (22:34)

Well, I have a kind of a similar story to you. When I was, I think my second year in college and I needed to get, know, earn some extra money to pay my tuition. And so, I went to, had a place where you can get jobs for students on the campus. And there was one where you would work with the custodians going around the campus, taking the trash out and putting it containers and taking it elsewhere.

And it was during the course of the    day; would have certain days you would have to do it. And I would go walking around. I took the job on, I go walking around and then I saw some of my friends who were sitting, having lunch or they were walking around and I purposely quickly turned around and went down another direction so they wouldn't see me. And I thought, you know, well, I should be ashamed of this. I'm just trying to earn the extra dollars here to pay my tuition.

Ashok Rajan (23:33)

I totally got it.

Rick Barron (23:43)

But I did it for a couple of weeks and I went back to the boss and I said, look, I want to keep working with you guys, but is there something I could do that's somewhat different? And he said, well, I have something for you. I think I know why you want to do this. And I explained it to him. And he sympathized with me, believe it or not. And he said, I have a job for you, but it's going to be a night job. And I said, OK.

And said, have to go into the gym where all the lockers are and wipe the basketball court. But then you also have to go into the locker rooms and wipe all those floors down, wash them down, wipe down all the lockers. And I said, okay, I'll take it. And it was a of a midnight shift. So, like you, there was no one there. And I was there doing the work and then have my lunch like at three o'clock in the morning and I thought, wow, I can't believe I'm doing this, but I have. But I think those are those steps that one needs to take to get through it. And I did.

Ashok Rajan (24:48)

Right. No, love, thank you, first of all, thank you for sharing that.  No, I love it. See, that's, I think that's special. I think going through that journey really transforms you, it basically like, there is a transformation that occurs on, the, you're part of the transformation and then you come out of it and it completely changes you. I love it.

Rick Barron (25:09)

If you had to talk to a young kid, know, girl, Roy, who is wanting to have the same dream that you did to come here to, to the United States. And they also had limited means to, you know, get a job, whatever. What advice would you give to them today versus what you had when you arrived here in 1991? Cause we're talking, you know, quite a few years here in between.

Ashok Rajan (25:48)

Yeah, I thought about this. I think about this a lot. Some days, you know, I go, just to be honest here, I think I go back and forth on this. Some days I feel the kids have it harder now with the situation and everything that's going on. But then I also reflect on this and say, sometimes before I came here, I had heard similar stories as well. 

But so, the first thing I would say to any immigrant or any person outside that's coming in is you need to come in with an open mind. Don't, know, the sometimes there's lots of good people. Like we talked about this. There are so many wonderful people here. 

Don't let the negativity influence you too much in the head is the first thing I would say is, hey, give it a chance. Give it a chance. There are great people here. But the next thing I would say is, obstacles are going to be there. It's not going to be easy. If you want some easy ways, then don't come here. It's not going to be easy. It's going to be hard.

Rick Barron (26:53)

Mm-hmm.

Ashok Rajan (26:56)

But if you're willing to persevere, I joke about this but I'm not serious. It's like if someone asks me, what's weight loss? The formula is easy. it consistently over a period of long period of time is very hard. Eat less, workout more. That's it. It's just calorie management. 

Eat less, workout more. And that's what I would say is that perseverance, staying the course, not giving up and then just always going back to your roots, why did you come here? You came here for a better opportunity. What was the, what did you not have these opportunities there? So, in that case, you need to take the leap of faith and then you should not, know, continuously you should push through. There's only one way, push through. Yeah, that's it. There's no.

Rick Barron (27:46)

That's right. Did anyone offer you any advice when you were first coming here or prior to coming here?

Ashok Rajan (27:54)

It's very similar. I've been very blessed that I've had a few mentors across time. It'll be back to name one and not the other. There's a whole bunch of people lots of gratitude for but yes the same lessons were given that you have to you have to push through obstacles that that obstacles will come it's not the difference is that again I think it was said well that everyone faces adversity there's no one that I'm gonna go Zen on this there's no house without death there's no one that everyone's going through a journey or some sort of something in their life.

No one has it easy. But then the difference is that how do you respond to it? How do you respond to these adverse situations? So, I think that's the part that I would say that you have to have that mindset to say, okay, sometimes it gets me down. Even now, I've had some rough times in the recent past, it can really push you down. It can question you, it can question your judgment, it can question your journey, but then you have to come out of it.

Again, it's you versus you. No one else is going to come out and say, hey, listen, this is going to get better or something. You have to get through this. Yeah. So those are the things that I would say. Yeah.

Rick Barron (29:15)

Right. No, I went through periods like that when I was going to college because there were times where I wasn't sure I was going to have enough money for tuition the next year. I mean, I was able to achieve it. But I guess that's what you just said, kind of maybe I want to ask you. You said there were times where you had some doubts when you were going for your masters here and then doing all these jobs.

Was there, I don't know, sort of like a defining moment that told you, yeah, it's tough, but I'm gonna make it. And what happened at this moment told me, I'm gonna do this. There's no stopping now.

Ashok Rajan (29:55)

Yeah.

No, this is the, you know, absolutely. I absolutely, I think this was the moment. So, I had this, had, so it's a little story over a three-month period I would love to share.

Rick Barron (30:15)

Please.

Ashok Rajan (30:16)

First of all, I got this job off campus. It was actually a sweepstakes company. And then I was their database person. that point, was, you and all I had to do was create reports for people. And these people, it's like what's called as a glorified call center now, but they would call people anyhow. 

A group of us were fired within a month of getting that job, all on the same day. So literally I went and got a motorcycle and a friend had loaned me this money because it was too hard for me to commute. I was already in debt and then this is my best friend and actually he's one of my co-founders of this new company. So, he actually loans me this money and says, hey, it's very hard to see you struggle like this. You need something to go to work.

And then literally the day I go to work with the new bike. And then I was like, hey, you need to take us out. We all go to lunch and when we come back, all 12 of us are laid off. It's very strange, bizarre story, but I'll not go down that path. And then what happens is I have no idea what I'm gonna do. And then I get this job as the electrician. And then someone says, hey, I heard you're an electrical engineer. Do you have electric skills? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty good with wires and all these things. And then he goes like, hey, okay.

I get this introduction and then this I start working with this person and I had a good gig so this was you know I remember this like yesterday so it's like September 93 and then I worked through September and then what happens is the September maybe some parts of October.

And I'm basically wiring people's swimming pools. So, I'm the guy that would do your alarm systems. If you needed music in your pool, I'm your huckleberry. I would do all those jobs. I was doing a great job. And then this person that I was working with, he says, hey, I have this great project, but I can't, the people can't see you that you're the person that's working. Every day I'm going to take you to this place and you need to come work with me. 

I say what's the work? He goes hey you need to lay a bunch of cable. And so every for almost I would say between 30 and 40 days every day he would come before sunrise he would take me in his van and this you know he put me in the back of the van close to the door. I know this sounds incredible but hey this is this is my life. I always go to the spot when I'm feeling low. 

So, then he takes me in this van and then we go into this basement of this building. I don't know what this building is. And then he puts me through this hole, which is a two by two in the wall. If you've seen this, and I always like it all, but I go to parking garages, I look for this. It's just the strange thing, right? 

It's one of those things where you say, hey, where is this? Where is the crawl space? That's the crawl space. So, then he sends me through this crawl space, and then my job is to move. had this, I knew that this is some sort of rich person's house, building. I didn't know what the building was.

And then my job was to move the security cameras and the whole thing, you so he had explained the project, he said, listen, the people, don't like seeing the security desk when they come in. So, our job is to move all this stuff, the monitors and everything else to the basement and they do a different cabin. 

You get these ends of the cable and then you're going to pull all these cables into this other room, right? So anyway, I had to put about 30,000 feet of cable, okay? So, all the cameras, everything else, I pulled it over that 40-day period. And then what happens is that, again, remember that sun up to sun down, I'm in this crawl space. 

Then it's done and it takes me; I missed so many things that were going on on the other side. I'm ready to graduate at this point, so I didn't have that many classes, but I remember that it took me quite a while to get used to sunlight again because I'd been in perpetual darkness for like about 40 days if you can imagine like I would only be out in the evenings which means I came up after sundown. 

Anyhow, after all this, the guy doesn't pay me. he just, know, the, and I was in the, I think that's where I think I hit the rock bottom. I literally hit rock bottom at the point going, okay.

I was already in debt. I'm going to finish my schoolwork. I don't have a job lined up. I thought that I was going to make some money. I thought I was going to make a few thousand dollars in this process, which again, in $93 is quite a bunch of money if you can relate to this.

And then it was just, I thought that, I still think that's, I've hit rock bottom a few times, but I think that was absolute rock bottom. Like I didn't know how to take the next forward step. Also at the same time, I was dealing with some stuff at school. So, I'd done my computer engineering masters. I was ready to submit my thesis and then my advisor wouldn't let me graduate. 

So anyhow, at the end, what I ended up doing is, even though I did a complete master's in computer engineering, I did another master's in computer science and I graduated after another 12 months. The real great part of the story is I had to find what was this place that I worked.

And then finally, because I could, when I closed my eyes, I knew the route that he would take and I had done this like 60 times, right? Once up, once down. That was the, I realized that that was the Boca Raton Resort and Country Club, which became the Waldorf Astoria Hotel. So, you know, yes, you know, probably like I like, I'll tease my daughter now, you know, now we can go stay at the Waldorf and I go, you know, you should be very grateful. Your dad was the guy that was the gopher under these buildings. 

Don't take this from Grand Rapids. Yeah, I would say, that's a defining moment where after that trick I felt anything's possible. Once I came out of that hole, then I felt that, things can't get any worse than this. Things can't get any worse than this. And thankfully they haven't. I don't want to, you know, don't want to, you know, mess with the universe, but things have been bad, but never that bad.

Rick Barron (36:44)

No, it's I mean, that's quite a story. I got to tell you. No, but I think, you know, a lot of us who have gone through some of the hard knocks, you know, sometimes you feel like, you know, why is this happening to me? But then you realize it's a test on you. Think how you're to get out of this, because, you know, it's almost like you want to run to the fire. You don't want to run away from it. There's a way. And there's a solution. 

You just have to think it out and not get uptight about it. Because as you said, know, life will be full of hurdles. It's not going to be perfect. And I think for some people they expect that. And I think more so today, people who live in this country who didn't come from another country and start from scratch. kind of speeding ahead here, you've accomplished, you your education and you've done a number of jobs now in high tech.

Ashok Rajan (37:21)

That's right.

Rick Barron (37:44)

Can you briefly explain where you are today with this company that you have founded?

Ashok Rajan (37:48)

Thank you for the question. No, it's again, this has been a big leap because if you think of my last job and then I once I parted ways, I took about three months. I wasn't even sure I wanted to go back to working. I was in this place where, you know, I'm gonna be mid-fifties. Well, you know, should I just, there was so many things that I wanted to do, but somehow the passion was still there. 

I saw the opportunity and I felt that the energy, if you will, Rick. I said, okay, you I got a lot of energy in the time not knowing what to do. And then also to me, I work for this company, you I wanna call this our responses. We talk about this very fondly. I think of all the companies that I work for. So far that's the best.

And then I'd say, hey, why was it the best? I think we had the best culture. There were lots of smart people. I wouldn't even rate myself in the top 25 % of smart people in that company. were so many smart people. it's confidence without attitude. 

People worked really hard together. We were always pushing for a goal. And then I remember I you know, I went and thanked Dan, the CEO when we were acquired by Oracle. It was just that he and the management team had created so many opportunities for everyone else. And this company got acquired in 2013. And now if you go back and look at those people, they're all the who's who. Like the people that worked with me, it's hard to see someone that's not successful. So again, they call it, I don't think it's ego for me. The search has been like; can I create something like that?

Where we create lots of opportunities for people. That should be the legacy, right? So it's not about some tech or I think that's the hallmark of a great company is that it doesn't have the best culture and that in my experience was the best company that I worked for. 

It's been very hard to come back and sort of like, know, we captured lightning in a bottle is how we describe it. And so that's been my, you know, without sounding, this is to honor Dan and all the other folks. I'm trying to create something in a small way that would be like that. I can create lots of opportunities for people here. Yeah, so that's the journey really. 

Yes, I could talk about the tech and the AI and all that, but I still feel like the company is the people. It's the people that makes it. Can you get a bunch of people, this is the, again, they did a great job in 6 Sense. Like how do you make people punch above their weight class? You could have lightweights, know, featherweights, band-a-weights, whatever weight, you know. How do you make them punch like a middleweight or a heavyweight?

Rick Barron (40:48)

Mm-mm.

Ashok Rajan (40:49)

And then for that, it's not money, it's not title, it's not all those things. It's like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Yeah, then we're like those guys that will, know, all those things will happen. But when people believe in something, when they feel that they're part of that, and then they see that, we're doing something much bigger than themselves, then...

Rick Barron (40:57)

Mm-hmm.

Ashok Rajan (41:13)

Suddenly, know, lightning in a bottle happens. And so that's the journey with this company as well. Can we do something like that? It's not happened since, but we're trying definitely the search as Star Trek would say, know, Captain Kirk would say the search is still on, you know.

Rick Barron (41:21)

That's great. I would have to guess though that a lot of your learnings when you were in college and the jobs that you had and coming here and just going after that American dream so to speak. Did you take any of those learnings and embed them in your company with people that you work with today?

Ashok Rajan (41:56)

I try, again, I am human, I want to call this out because I'm sure there'll be people listening, hey, it's nothing like this. First thing is, yeah, I try, I try really hard. But for me, it's a mix. 

Rick Barron (42:02)

Ha!

Ashok Rajan (42:16)

I try to give opportunities to people as much as, especially in the Bay Area and other places, there is a big, you know, there's this class system for sure. They look at it, the educational background, you know, it is all true. People read from the bottom of your resume. They want to know which university you went to, what's going on, all of that. I have consciously tried to not look at that and see, you know, who has that spark, who has that, you know, who wants to basically be something more. 

And then you have to take chances. Look, sometimes people will, it's not that they fail you, they just stop at a certain stage of the journey and say, is enough. You just need to keep taking chances with people. And so that's what hopefully we're trying to do in this company as well. And I actually, I just came back from India yesterday. It was fascinating. I took my co-founder who we studied together at the Haas School of Business at Berkeley. 

I wanted to call out Haas because that's where I grabbed the confidence without attitude. We don't go around, know, usually we don't go around calling our school names but he observed something on the flight back. He said, hey, it's really fascinating to see how people are, everyone that he met, he gave me this feedback. 

He said, hey, we're doing something great here because everyone is a believer and everyone seems to be willing to wear like three hats more than what they're capable of, what they should be doing. We're doing something right. I say, yeah, that's great. Let's do that a hundred times over. That's what we want.

Rick Barron (43:56)

Yeah, but I think that's all very reflective of you too, your style of management because I had one boss when I worked in high tech and she was a manager, but she was also a leader. mean, two qualities that you don't always get. And they were always very sincere about their expectations of what they wanted you to accomplish.

She wasn't, how do I put this? She was a very calm individual, but she expected a lot from you and you needed to always deliver. But deliver with quality and knowing that what you did, you learned something from it as well. Because she would do that to me a lot when I did some projects. And she'd go back and say, so what did you learn about this process when you went through it?

Ashok Rajan (44:50)

Yes

Rick Barron (44:55)

And I thought, you know, no one's ever asked me that. But I learned so much from her and I think she was such an open book. She would encourage you to have one-on-ones with her. And she was very discreet. said, anything we say in this room stays in this room. So, you can be very open. I mean, she would even share things. thought, gosh, I'm surprised she's even sharing this with me.

But it gave me a sense of feeling, if she's willing to do this, then I'm going to open myself up as well. And the dialogue going forward was just, there were no surprises. You knew the expectations. But you'll have managers like that. Sometimes then you'll have managers like, I got to get out of here.

Ashok Rajan (45:29)

Yes. But Rick, I want to call something out. And I think that also speaks volumes about you. My experience is that it's a two-way street. Again, heard this somewhere. Everyone receives advice. The wise profit by it.

So sometimes the, I would say this and then I think people would say this about me and that I'm being reflective and I'm self-aware. They would say, hey, this guy tells too many stories or, know, there's two schools of thought, right? Like either there are people who are like, you know, he's sharing this because he wants you to, you know.

Because that's, people have done that for me. You don't have to go through the experience to learn something like, do you really need to put your hand in fire to learn that fire is hot or would you listen to someone else who says, hey, know, if you put your hand in the fire, you're going to burn your hand.

So, I can say that, but that's like one hand trying to clap. It really requires the other person, and I think that says a lot about you, that you're willing to take that and observe that and then actually have the dialogue. And in my experience, I would say those are the most successful people that I've met that actually engage with you and say, give me more of that, or tell me, here's my perspective on this.

The worst thing to do is to ignore it. Look, I'm not saying that you need to, I come from a better place. ⁓ Again, learned from my mentors that you can both learn and unlearn. You can look at someone and say, I don't want to be like that. That's learning as well. That's unlearning and say, okay, that's my style is different. But if you're not open to that, then nothing happens. Right? So, I, you know, that says a lot about you that hey, good on you. Yeah.

Rick Barron (47:29)

Yeah, I mean. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, I'll tell you one more story. It was with the same. She was a director, the same person, and she had an employee who wanted to take on a role. But they didn't really have. For lack of a better word, their credentials to take on that role because. 

They weren't going to be successful in doing that job and they just couldn't understand the critique that my director was giving them. And then one day, you know, they were, they sat next to me and then we kind of shared the story. said, you know, I don't think you understand. It's not that she doesn't want you to take that job. She doesn't want you to take on that job and fail. I think you're missing the point. So without him knowing it, I went to go talk to my director. I shared what he wanted to do.

Ashok Rajan (48:05)

Yes

Rick Barron (48:27)

And he said, okay, how about if we do this? How about if you train this person and when they can prove from the syllabus and understand the methodology of how you perform this task, give me the evidence and they will critique it. 

And then if he can do that, we'll give him the job. Long story short, we went through the process and after I got through training him, he came back and he said, why did you take the time to want to help me. I said, it's pretty simple. We're a team. If you succeed, I succeed, our boss succeeds.

And the only reason, and I'll tell you again, she didn't want you to fail. I mean, I think if you had you taken on that role and you failed, you know, this might be a different story. So, I think people just need to understand that sometimes there's a critique that you have to take. It's hard to swallow. 

Ashok Rajan (49:30)

No, 100%. And I would share, like, hey, I don't want anyone listening to this thinking that I was always good. There were so many mistakes I made. again, I've had good managers, good leaders who would critique me in different ways and say, hey, there are different ways to handle the people situation, or I'm not too organized. 

But I think what you said again resonates a lot with me is I've tried hard, sometimes I've failed, but I've never stopped trying to be better. When someone says something, then I go, okay, know, the first steps in everything is acknowledgement.

Most people don't acknowledge it. Sometimes when you say it, even in a nice way, their defense mechanism kicks in going, no, no, no, I'm not that way. This is, I'm better than, you have me pegged all wrong. You know, the quiet self-reflection would say, even in the worst times, I would say that, I did something wrong. Could I have handled that situation better? 1000%. And, you know, any time that I've been in some sort of trouble.

I would say I was to blame because I put myself in that situation. But that takes, look, I don't want someone, this guy is really good. No, it takes a lot of self-reflection and pain to get to that point to say, yeah, you know, that was my bad. I had something good going and I put myself in a place where someone could take advantage of me or something, you know, happened.

And then how do you try to avoid that? But like I said, I think this is a great dialogue that you can have people that are well-wishers that will come and tell you certain things. It takes a lot of maturity, which I don't have, I've not had, in some cases I've not. And over time maybe I've become better at it, is to accept that. It may sting sometime.

Sometimes people would say some things to you like, I can be very intense. My standards can be very high. it will be off putting. It'll be off putting. the only reason I, in my defense, I would say, yeah, I'm only pushing because I think you're capable of it.

If I didn't think you're capable, wouldn't be talking. But again, I have changed a lot, all I'm saying is that totally, totally respect what you're saying. But it takes two sides. You have to be open. You have to accept it. Acceptance might take time. Give yourself grace. Give yourself grace and then keep moving forward.

Rick Barron (52:12)

Absolutely, I totally agree. So, I usually end our conversation with some what I call speed round questions. So, I'm just going to ask you five. They're pretty short. So, I'm going to start with the first one.

What was the best live concert you ever attended and why?

Ashok Rajan (52:23)

Okay.

Songs of Faith and Devotion by Depeche Mode, 1993. Yes, that's the best. Again, it was a transformative experience. I love Depeche Mode, but I think just going to the concert was something else. Again, I could talk for hours. Songs of Faith and Devotion, yeah. Best album, best concert, yeah.

Rick Barron (52:53)

That's great.

What do you wish you had more time to do?

Ashok Rajan (52:59)

Read yes, I wish I could read more I just know the more I read ⁓ the more I become aware that the less I know

Rick Barron (53:03)

Yeah.

Ashok Rajan (53:12)

Unless I know. And then I just, if I had all the time, would just, I'm still old fashioned, I love the smell of books. You can laugh. I love all the books you have. Sometimes the most calming thing for me is still to go to the Barnes and Noble that's there and just stand there, know, do nothing but just smell the smell of books. Yeah.

Rick Barron (53:21)

I remember I went to France with my wife and her brother and his wife and we went by Notre Dame and right across the way there was a bookstore called the Shakespearean Bookstore. And I walked in and my wife looked at her brother and she said he's going to be a while, so let's go over here and get some coffee.

Ashok Rajan (53:36)

Great. That's my wife's the same thing. My wife plays games with me. Sometimes she hides my books. She's just checking on me to see if I read it, if I know that it's missing. Trust me, I know, I know. I keep tab of my books. I have a shelf exactly like yours. May not pick the book out, but I go look at it once in a while. At least I know. We're the same. We're the same. Yes.

Rick Barron (54:18)

So, what was your first paying job?

Ashok Rajan (54:20)

The first you know if you want to call it a job the first job that I ever did that I made some money was selling detergent like right after my father died, I did a little sales gig I was trying to show my mother that 

I could be useful and so we my buddy and I went and got some chemicals and then we made detergent and then we went door to door selling it. It was a painful process. I think our conversion rate was like maybe a hundred dollars for like one person buying a packet, we made some money. was really, it was fascinating. That was the first time I actually made some money on my own. 12, yeah.

Rick Barron (54:59)

Okay, next question. If your wife wrote a book about you, what would the title be?

Ashok Rajan (55:09)

That's a tough one. I was going to say Mr. Trivia, like useless trivia, the useless part is really important because she's always teasing me about it. That's what comes to mind. She'll always be like, hey, like, you know, that was fascinating of what uses that. I'm like, I don't know.

Rick Barron (55:19)

I love it, I'll take it.

Okay, final question. What would you attempt to do if you knew you couldn't fail?

Ashok Rajan (55:36)

Gosh, I would love to do something that could help like a million people, like have a really big goal, know. Do something like that solves something huge like food and water for everyone or something really big, something, you know, tackle one of those problems.

Again, we talked about Maslow's hierarchy needs. And then when you look around you and you go, hey, there's so many people that don't have the most basic necessities of life.

So, I would love to tackle one of those problems. If I knew I couldn't fail, I would love to solve one of those big problems.

Rick Barron (56:13)

Well, that's fascinating. I like that answer. 

So, Ashok, I really want to take the time to say thank you so much for joining me in this conversation. think our first conversation, the one we just had right now, has been very enlightening. 

And I got to know a little bit more about you and I really love the values that you've learned along the way that you were sharing in this conversation. 

If you want to leave one lasting thought, though, for people who want to come here to this country to make a go of it. What might that be?

Ashok Rajan (56:48)

Again, I would go to my favorite book of all time is the Count of Monte Cristo by Duma and then read the last words, know, if you read the entire story and all the trials and tribulations and then he, Duma ends the book with weight and hope. Or if you like the more modern version is the Shawshank Redemption, favorite movie. And then this is where Andy Dufresne says, you know, hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things and no good thing goes to waste. So, hope, you know, don't lose it

Rick Barron (57:22)

That's great. Well, listen, I want to thank you again, and I want to thank the audience for listening in. 

And hopefully, you know, we'll have you come back again, maybe down the road, do another talk. 

And I want to say thank you to people who have joined and we'll talk to you soon. Take care.

Ashok Rajan (57:39)

Thanks, Rick.