Interview #13 Suzanne Junered – The Art of Storytelling

Transcript, Apr. 25, 2025

Rick Barron (00:01.154)

Hi everyone and welcome to my podcast, That's Life, I Swear. I'm Rick Barron, your host. Today, I am very pleased to have Suzanne Junered on my show. We'll be discussing the creative world of becoming a novelist writer. It was her passion for storytelling that made her take a pivot in her life. And we'll get into that part of the conversation as we get started.

Suzanne will share how she mastered her craft for writing, overcoming challenges, and staying resilient despite setbacks. 

Now, if you've ever dreamed of writing a great novel, get ready to take copious notes. 

That said, let's dive into the process, the perseverance, and the passion behind storytelling.

Please join me as I have my conversation with Suzanne Junered. 

Suzanne, welcome to the show.

Suzanne (01:00.098)

Thank you, Rick. I'm so happy you asked me to join you.

Rick Barron (01:03.128)

I've been looking forward to this. And let me provide a little context for the audience. You and I first met; I think it was in 2023. You and I were both attending an online podcasting course at Stanford University. So that said, I want everyone to know that this conversation has been a year and a half in the making. 

So, I'm a very patient guy, so you were worth waiting for, let me tell you.

Suzanne (01:33.55)

I appreciate you waiting and I am of the mindset that the stars align when they need to align and I think this is the right time for us to be having this conversation.

Rick Barron (01:43.1)

That's great. So, if you could maybe give us kind of a broad brushstroke of, you know, who you are, what you've done so far in your life, and maybe that could be a good springboard into how you started getting into writing novels, if you will.

Suzanne (02:01.953)

Certainly.

You know, it was not something I thought of when I was younger. I am a child of the 80s and the 90s and there was this unspoken rule that I was to go to college and get a job, a 9 to 5 that pays the bills and save X percent each month and that's what a successful life meant, which was a good teaching, I think, by my parents so that I could be responsible and live in this world.

What I realized I was missing were the creative pieces to life. And I didn't even realize in my young self that I could hold on to those things even as hobbies. I went to school and ended up studying nutrition. I always had an interest in science, pretty good at math. 

And that seemed like a career path that could serve me in those ways to be financially rewarding, just kind of use the skills that I had in the way of understanding the human body and science. I used to say it was a selfish profession because it has to do with myself as well, whether it's my patients or my own health.

And the funny thing is, when I got into that profession, I always used to say it was less about the knowledge that I had and more about connecting with people. So that was the first part of my life and the career path that I had chosen. When I was in my late 20s and early 30s, I really started missing creativity.

And so, I started thinking about ways to bring that in and for me it started with writing just for myself. I began writing some personal stories. I didn't share them with anyone. It almost like journaling but not quite. And I didn't realize that what I was doing was learning how to tell stories until I did.

Suzanne (04:29.006)

I don't know if you just want me to keep going. Okay.

Rick Barron (04:32.027)

No, I think that's a good segue. Are you originally from Tennessee? Because I know on your website you went to the University of Tennessee, so I don't know if you came from another state to go there or.

Suzanne (04:43.022)

I did, no, I grew up in Tennessee, I grew up in the South, and I went to school. I grew up in a city called Chattanooga.

It's a lovely city. Went to school in Knoxville, two hours north. I did my graduate program in Nashville. So, I was such a homebody when I was young, that I stayed close to home when I was, when I was in school. And after my graduate program, I, I just got that bug to do something different. And I ended up moving out West to Colorado. I had a friend who had gone to college at CU in Boulder.

I went to visit her one-time during college during the summer and not only did I miss her and her friendship but just was in awe of the real mountains what we called it so I grew up on a mountain beautiful smoky mountain. But if we're comparing, they're more like hills compared to the Rockies and what I got to experience when I came out to the real mountains.

Rick Barron (05:50.012)

Oh, that's great. Yeah, know several friends of mine who have moved to Colorado. mean, they miss California, but they say you really have to absorb what you're surrounded with when you're living in Colorado. Like you say, the mountains. It's just a very, very peaceful Renaissance that they capture there that they didn't have in California. I mean, it's a different ambiance here in California, but, you know, I've seen various pictures of Colorado. My wife went there many times when she was working and she just she loved it.

Suzanne (06:27.008)

It's very true. I mean, appreciating the views, the access to nature. And on top of it, I think it holds true. I've been here for 21 years now. The nature of the people here is, they're all accepting. You can show up how you show up, be who you are. 

And for a 23-year-old when I first moved, that was really appealing to me as well. I love the South. Adore the culture and my upbringing and my family and my friends there. But there was always this little part of me who wanted to be a little bit different to express myself in different ways. And when I stepped foot in Boulder specifically, but I would say most of Colorado, I just knew that I could show up however I wanted to show up.

Rick Barron (07:25.466)

So, when you left for Colorado, was that sort of the first stepping stone in wanting to take that creative mind to really start into writing?

Suzanne (07:37.518)

Not yet. I didn't realize that yet. I think that was a stepping stone into a whole new world for me and I didn't know what that was going to look like yet. But I spent the first 10 years plus of my time in Colorado in the professional world of healthcare. 

And I was fortunate to usually work jobs that were about 32 hours a week instead of a full 40 hours a week. So, I had the opportunity to play. I could get out with my dog and take a hike on a Friday morning when most people were at their jobs and just exploring nature.

I think was one of the sparks of creativity for me. It just would open my mind up to different ideas and thoughts when I'm out on a trail, as opposed to head down at my desk or patient facing and having professional conversations.

Rick Barron (08:39.324)

So, what did you tell yourself or let me back up. What was that moment when you said, you know, I want to be a writer. I've been doing a lot of writing here and there in my journal. But when did you decide to tell yourself, this is the moment I need to get serious. 

Suzanne (09:01.698)

I'll be honest, it took me a long time to tell myself that I could do that. The first spark was through a friend of mine who I met in third grade. And in fact, I'm going to visit her next week. She lives in Scotland now. We're still very good friends. And I watched her from afar, publish novels. She had gone to college and has her degree in creative writing. She began her writing career, her novel, author career I should say. I was one of her biggest fans, still am, and watched this from afar and I was visiting her one weekend.

And I just almost didn't ask the question, but I just felt so strongly I had a story inside of me. And I said, do you think I could write a novel? She almost laughed because it was such a silly question. She said, of course you can write a novel. Anyone who wants to write a novel can learn to write a novel. If you have creative ideas, you can put it into a story. So here I was thinking, I don't have a background. I didn't go to school to study writing.

I always love to read but not the voracious reader that you see, you know, people with a book at every corner. And she is the one who turned that around for me and said, yeah, of course you can do this. So that was the first moment when I decided, all right, I'll put this story down in words and get it out of my head.

Rick Barron (10:36.7)

Excellent. Now, I've been looking at your website and I've looked at some of the pages where you have sort of like short intros around four books, manuscripts, if you will, ones called Good Night Monsters and Mind Over Matter. And I took some notes. I'm trying to figure out what the genre is here. And I think your writing is driven by unapologetic women who are fighting against odd elements of their own psyche and I think I find the books being somewhat supernatural sort of a psychological drama.

 Why that theme? I mean, can you walk us through that process. Was that sort of like your first launch into pulling together your creative thoughts and getting the ball rolling into becoming a novel writer?

Suzanne (11:34.176)

Yeah, definitely picking up on the theme there. When I first started writing, I was trying to follow some sort of formula and create a story. When I got involved with writers’ groups, that gave me permission to start writing what I really wanted to start writing. 

So, the first couple of books, stories that I began are in a drawer, a physical and a computer file drawer. And that's not really what I wanted to be doing. What I really wanted to do was analyze human behavior, including my own and kind of dive deep into the choices that we humans make when we're faced with certain scenarios. 

And so, my books are very psychologically driven. They tow the line between suspense and horror. I've only recently realized that horror comes into play there. It's not necessarily slasher, blood and guts type of horror, but just the psychological dread, dissent, unrest that can happen with my characters. And a lot of that is based off of my own experiences.

Not my own experiences with death or murder or any of these extremes that are happening in my novels, but just taking my own life scenarios and thinking what would push somebody over the edge? How might somebody react to X, Y or Z? And just a fascination that I have with human behavior and why we act and think and feel the way that we do, what can set us off? 

Suzanne (13:23.748)

And so, my mind takes the scenarios into say hyperbolic situations of how these characters might be reacting and it's just really fun and juicy for me and I'm not sure where all the darkness comes from. People who are good friends of mine say you know you're so you know light and happy and free spirited where is this deep dark deep darkness coming from in your stories and I don't really have an answer for it.

Rick Barron (13:50.204)

Well, I guess that makes it like you're the least person they would have expected.

Suzanne (13:54.572)

Yes, yeah, I did. That's so true, Rick. I like to surprise people and I don't think that I have been doing that on purpose with my novels, but I now recognize like, it is surprising and I like that.

Rick Barron (14:07.228)

So, I understand during the 90s you had a crush on Hannibal Lecter.

Suzanne (14:12.864)

I sure did. You know why? Didn't you? No. Fascinating. Of course.

Suzanne (14:22.922)

It fascinated me that this awful, evil character could be created and at the same time I could have a heart for him. I could feel for him knowing.

Well, at the time, I guess in the 90s, we didn't really know Hannibal Lecter's backstory. Sometime early 2000s, I believe Thomas Harris published, no, no, no, was maybe later 2000s. Anyway, he published a novel of Hannibal Lecter's backstory. Can't remember the name of that one off the top of my head.

But there were just key elements to that character that I thought, is awful, he is terrible, but at the same time, there's something that makes me like him a little bit. There's something that made Clarice Starling drawn to him as well. And that aspect of creating a character fascinated me, that someone can be doing awful things at the same time as us feeling sorry for them. 

Some more examples of more current media would be, excuse me, the Dexter character. I don't know if you've seen that series or read those books. And the series You by Caroline Kepnes. The books are fascinating to me. It's become a show on Netflix. And again, just such awful characters.

You can kind of see why they're pushed to do what they do and people are rooting for these people who are doing awful things. So, it fascinates me.

Rick Barron (16:03.418)

Well, ironically, you know, before I dove into podcasting, I did some research on the various genres that are available. And the one that came out at the very top all the time was crime and mysteries. I think there's a fixation that people have with, as you say, these characters. There's something deep inside of them that, you know, you can say what they are on the outside, but there's something inside that we don't know about. 

And I think that's kind of the draw to find out who they really are. So, as you write your manuscripts or you do your writing, how do you build upon a character that makes he or she interesting to the reader? How do you pull that together? What's your process?

Suzanne (16:55.982)

That's a great question. I don't know that I have a consistent process in that way, to be honest with you.

I just have to sit with my characters for a while. I tried to go down the researching path in years past, and you're talking about this draw to true crime has become so huge. Podcasts, shows, and every time I found myself researching a serial killer or a crime, I had to shut it down.

So, I'm not one of those people who listens to true crime. Again, this is why it's so bizarre that I write books about murder or very dark things. Because when it comes to real life for me, it just gives me that ick factor and I sit with it and it stays inside my body and I just, I can't go there personally. But fiction to me is completely fake. It's fantasy. It's not real. It doesn't scare me in that way. So, developing my characters, gosh.

I don't even know how to answer that question very well. It's time, it's sitting with them, it's getting to know them. I think a lot about what's happening or happened to them prior to the stories that I'm creating. What kind of conversations would we have if we sat down at the dinner table together or were burying a dead body together doing such things? How would we interact?

Suzanne (18:35.598)

And they really do come to life. I you hear so many authors say that, but it is a true statement that these characters are very real to us as we're putting them down on the page.

Rick Barron (18:50.812)

Yeah, I think that's the beauty of fiction writing is because you have such, you have creative license to go anywhere you want and you leave it up to the imagination of the reader to think how you're seeing what you wrote because you may have had a completely different perspective of what you're conveying, but someone else is going to read that and say, hmm, that's not how I would have seen it, but this is, this is what I was thinking. 

So that's what brought them, I think, the enjoyment of what they're reading. But in addition to writing, coming up with your characters and what each one entails, what about, I've heard people say when you write a book, fiction.

 Some people say you always start with the ending. That way then you know how to build towards that ending. know, there's the beginning and the middle, the ending. How do you approach it?

Suzanne (19:47.19)

Yeah, that's a great question. I just want to touch back because I really love what you just said, Rick, about people, or this is how I'm interpreting it, having their own interpretation of a creative project. And I agree with that so very much. 

When people get mad that a story ends a certain way, it drives me crazy because I think, well, you know, imagine your own. That's one interpretation or a book being turned into a movie, even though it might follow the same storyline. Those are two separate entities because they're different creators behind them. And I love to see that come to life. just, I can't wait to see what people have to say reading my stories and how they interpret it, because there's no right or wrong. 

Whatever I put into it, I put into it and whatever somebody else gets out of it, they get it out of it. So, I really appreciate that you said that. But back to the next question, knowing the ending. I typically have a vague sense of the ending when I sit down to write a story. 

The toughest part for me is the middle is how do you get there and how do you take your reader along. So, there's a spark of an idea. I'll take Good Night Monsters for example because you named that one.

Suzanne (21:20.45)

That book started with two ideas. One, I had the idea that there was a woman fantasizing about murder, but morally she knew it was wrong. The second piece was that she worked in this place called the Body Farm, which is a forensics anthropology center where they study the decomposition of cadavers. And that's all that came to me. I thought, what in the world? How am I going to create this story?

But I spent time with it and time with it and ultimately it became a story connecting those two dots that someone she imagined killing one day shows up as a cadaver donation to her place of work. So, was it real? Was it not real? And the story just unfolded in that way and I figured out where it began and I at the time had a sense of the ending. Of course, my ending has changed since then.

And the getting there was what took the most time to flesh out, is what is the real story? I think the middle part of the book is the hardest part from my experience to write because that's the juiciness of the story. That's also the part where you can lose a reader if it lags on, if you have scenes that aren't important or moving the story forward. And it's the most challenging to me.

I will say I did write one story that I didn't quite know the ending yet, but I had a vague idea of where I was going, but I still felt like that middle section was the toughest.

Rick Barron (23:05.094)

So, when you are writing your scripts or writings for a new book, I think you mentioned that you are part of a group of other people who write books, if I'm not mistaken. Have you ever shared with them? Well, here's a manuscript I'm working on. Here's one of the chapters. I'm kind of stuck in the middle, so to speak. How do you read this? Am I missing anything from what?

I have told you about the essence of the story itself. What kind of feedback do you get, say positive or negative? And I guess to that end, it's kind of one of those things of how do you receive negative feedback versus positive feedback to what you are trying to create in your story?

Suzanne (23:57.89)

Yeah, that's a great question. I think that anyone who's interested in writing should find a writing community and that can look many different ways. I started out in a professional organization locally here in Boulder. I would take workshops and a couple of them were year-long workshops called Year of the Novel. And so, we really got to know the other individuals in that group. 

And during that time, swap pages, just like you're saying, 30 pages at a time, a chapter, perhaps the entire manuscript by the end of the year if we felt like we had time to, you know, to work on each other's work in that way. And after that, I progressed into a private group with some of those members and we would meet on our own time.

Pandemic times came and we disbanded in a way and I connected more with some writers online and now I have met a couple of women who have become two of my best friends as well right in my neighborhood from other neighbors say you're you write books well you know so does such-and-such and the three of us are a little cohort of writers as well and so there's many different ways that that can look and I would encourage anyone to find their community and if you feel like your particular community is not working for you in whatever way then seek something else because there's so many people out there who are who are writing and can offer support because like you said sometimes that support is really helpful and sometimes it's not quite what you're looking for.

I've learned to not take comments from others as the be-all end-all. Sometimes other writers critiquing your work might be in the vein of how they would write it and only you can write your story. Other times I have found writer friends who just understand completely what I'm trying to do and add so much value to my work that I can't imagine not having a conversation with them along the way. And I think everyone thinks writing is a very solo act.

But it's actually not. There are so many hands in the very best way in a single book, whether it's friends, critique groups.

Maybe just readers. Maybe you find people who aren't writing who love reading and say, well, what do you think of this? You know stories. You like to read stories. Give me your feedback. And as the writer, I would always encourage people to take what resonates to you and leave the rest.

And again, it's your work. If something somebody says resonates, take it in, see if you can incorporate that into your writing. And if you get that little gut reaction like, mm, what that person's saying doesn't really feel true to my own stories or this character, then you just politely say, thank you. I really appreciate that feedback. And you set it aside.

Rick Barron (27:28.134)

So how many years have you been at this now?

Suzanne (27:31.426)

That's a great question. I started writing my first novel in November of 2011. And I remember that particular month because there's gosh, I don't even know if it's still a movement, but there's this national movement called National Novel Writing Month, NaNoWriMo for short. And the idea is that you would write a novel in 30 days or how many days does November have? 

I'm not going to calculate that right now. You write a novel in a month. And the idea being anyone can write a novel, getting the words on the page, get the story down. So that's what I did initially upon encouragement from my friend, from my dear third grade friend. 

And that's what I took to future workshops. I said, hey, I have these, you know, 60,000 words. What do I do with it now? Am I even a writer? And so that's when it began for me. It's been how many years ago, was that 14 years now? Yeah. And I have four novels that I feel like are appropriate for the masses. And many other words that have been scrapped and rewritten and drawer, as we would say.

Rick Barron (28:58.652)

I want to go back to what you just said, something along the lines of, as you were going, starting this process, I think you said, am I even a writer?

Suzanne (29:07.246)

Mm-hmm.

Rick Barron (29:09.508)

In the time that you've started to where you are now, what things have you learned about yourself versus the previous profession that you had when you were kind of in the medical profession? I mean, two different worlds, both on the opposite ends of the spectrum. But what did you learn more about getting into this world of writing? I mean, did you ever have a moment where, you know, I think I'm good, but maybe it just isn't for me. I gave it a good try, but what told you no? I can do this. I got to keep going. I got to pay my dues, so to speak.

Suzanne (29:50.316)

Yeah. Okay, there's two things I want to say about that. First, I do have a point of connection in the two professions, we'll call it. For me, in my nutrition profession, I realized it was about connecting with people. And I've since realized in writing books that that's also the point of me putting words on paper or speaking, having conversation with you is to connect with people. 

And interestingly enough, I think they're more related than I ever thought that they were. However, we're talking about the profession of writing and my nutrition profession. Money comes to mind because in my old jobs, someone paid me a salary or paid me by the hour to share my knowledge with them and to guide them in whatever ways I needed to guide them. So, the idea of my own self-worth and value related to that was clear-cut because I was reaping some sort of financial reward from that. 

With writing, it's a whole different animal. You spend so much time creating, and if you're hoping to get published, to get rewarded in that way, I personally had this association with money as worth. And so that's something that I've had to really work through and realize and it's taken years and years to recognize that my time spent writing is just as valuable as my time in my nutrition profession even though there's not been a money exchange for those things if that makes sense and it's a long path for someone who does want to get published, which has been a goal of mine maybe since 2017, 2018 I started pursuing publication. So, I began writing in 2011. In 2018 I began pursuing publication and thought, can I make this into a career? Can it become more than a hobby?

And it was that book, Good Night Monsters, that I sought a literary agent for. And that process in itself takes months, if not years, to get in touch with agents. There's a very specific process to do that. And eventually, I did become agented for that book.

So, in my mind, I thought, well, that's it. Somebody believes in me. That means this is my new profession. The book will sell. It will be on bookshelves. It will be in bookstores. I've made it, is what I thought. This was in 2019. And I had a lovely agent. She and I worked together. We did some revisions. She was trying to sell the book in 2020.

And it turns out I had not made it because the book did not sell. And ultimately, she left her position as an agent and went back to it to become an editor again. And so, I became unagented. So, I thought, okay, I'm not in the business of publishing anymore. Something inside me at that point told me to keep going with this particular book.

And during the whole process, I kept writing other novels as well. I kept listening to that creative flow and listening to the stories that I had to tell and had inside of me. And so, I ended up hiring an editor for the book, Good Night Monsters. I took it back to agents again after that and thought, is anyone else going to want this book?

Suzanne (34:07.39)

Months, maybe even a year later, I became agented for it again. So, now I've made it. Of course, it won't happen again to where the book doesn't sell. Guess what? It happened again. The book didn't sell. So, professional, two professionals in the industry believed in this book and were championing it with me, but still the book did not sell. 

And when it was just this past summer, I had another breakup with my agent. It was a very kind breakup. Nobody's mad at each other, but the relationship had taken its course. The book didn't sell, and we decided to part ways. So, I still think with each of those moments, I began questioning my value as a writer. 

And those thoughts would sneak in and whatever the little devil and the angel on my shoulders, one would say, yeah, you must not be any good at this. And then this one would come in and say, no, you got to keep going. You just have to keep going. This is your path. Let's see what happens. You have to have patience.

Rick Barron (35:24.358)

Well, I just got so many questions now. Did you ever reach a point where, okay, I'm going to give it this amount of time? If I don't make it by this point, I'm going to stop and pivot back to what, maybe go back into the medical profession or what have you. 

And then in regards to the agents, I know friends who are writing books and they say there's pros and cons to finding a good agent. And then you made mention that when you did find an agent, the book didn't sell. I think I understand what you mean by the book doesn't sell. But just if you could clarify that. So those are three questions. I'm sorry if you could if you could answer those.

Suzanne (36:12.224)

Yes, yes. Okay, in that order.

Rick Barron (36:17.636)

No, whatever order you want. Sure.

Suzanne (36:19.342)

Okay, let's go backwards. So, you're right, let me clarify. When an author becomes agented, it's the agent's job as the representative, a literary agent, to take a book to publishers and say, I have this book, here's why it's great, here's why you should buy it. And if the publisher offers the author a contract, then the agent is getting a percentage, usually 15 % of what the earnings are for that book on behalf of the author or not on behalf of, but they work together in that way. 

So, the agent is the professional that takes it door to door quote to the publishing houses. And just because one gets agented, case in point, does not mean that the book will sell to these publishers. And so that was my case. Take me through the other questions again.

Rick Barron (37:25.372)

OK. Did you ever have a stake in the ground where you said if I don't make it by then I'm going to just say hey, I gave it my best shot. I'm going go back to my profession or whatever.

Suzanne (37:32.109)

A backup plan.

Suzanne (37:35.98)

Yep. Yeah, I think always in the back of my mind, I do, I have kept my license as a dietitian and there's always space for that in my life. But at this point in time, I do not have to go into that profession. And I used to put a ticking clock there. 

I used to put a ticking clock and say, okay, well if in the next three years or the X amount of years, I do have a backup plan. However, a mentor of mine said to me, and I can't remember if this was based off of, well I won't even say it because I'm not sure, but a book that she had read, maybe Stephen Pressfield's work, I'm not sure, maybe it was Gayle Hendricks, Gay Hendricks. 

Having a backup plan really shows yourself that you don't believe in yourself. And so, well, you know, we can't just be frivolous and, you know, throw away our jobs. If I weren't financially secure at the moment to say, I'm just going to go do this. And it doesn't matter if my kids don't get to eat dinner tonight. you know, I have a realistic plan in place. But changing that mindset piece around

Rick Barron (38:40.49)

Mmm, good point.

Suzanne (39:07.02)

The pressure to make something happen in a certain time frame for me was key because during the moments of pressure that I had put on myself, I wasn't creating. I was no longer writing. I was no longer enjoying the idea of writing. 

And when I took that out and said, things will happen when they happen, then the stories kept flowing and everything just felt so much more at ease within me. And guess what? Things have happened since then. 

Yeah, in my mind, I thought, well, Good Night Monsters, you know, either will not be published or maybe one day I'll pursue self-publication of it. Maybe it has a future, but it was on the back burner for a while until I heard about some publishers that take unagented material and I submitted to a publishing house called She Writes Press. They have a very good vetting process and they said yes to my book finally. I'm trying to think of how many years later I was first agented in 2019 for that book and here we are in 2025. So, six years later A publisher finally said yes to this book and this is the right time for it to happen.

Rick Barron (40:28.996)

Wow.

Rick Barron (40:39.644)

So, guess to go into this field of work is not for the lighthearted. You need to be prepared for a lot of ups and downs, a lot of, gosh darn it, I thought I had it, you know. So, I guess to that, what do you think is, when we talk about writing, is it just pure talent? Is it persistence? I mean, how do you pull those two together or is it something else that you've encountered that makes you learn what you had to do to where you are now? When you first started.

Suzanne (41:18.318)

Right, I think there are several pieces at play. I don't think I'm the most talented writer. That's just truth. I've learned how to tell a story and there are skills that I have as a storyteller that I think make my stories interesting. 

But I don't claim to be the best at anything or naturally talented. And so, I think anyone who wants to tell a story can learn to tell a story. There may be that subset of, you know, it's things that I watch my kids learn. Sometimes they're creating something and I'm like; do I tell them to stop? Or do I tell them to keep going? There may be a subset of people who maybe aren't meant to write stories, but I think it's probably very small. I think most people can learn the craft, can become inspired, can become involved. Most of us enjoy entertainment in that way. We watch television, we read books, unlimited streaming options these days. That's the same thing. Somebody's telling a story and we're interested in it. And so, I think we all have the sense of what goes into creating a story. Was there a part two to that question?

Rick Barron (42:48.252)

No, I guess it's well another question I had was you've been involved with a lot of writer’s groups friends of yours who have written books but in your journey to where you are now from when you first started what do think has been the best piece of advice that's been passed your way as you start at this journey into where you are now today. What might that have been?

Suzanne (42:50.56)

I had a thought. Okay. I think a lot of it for me has been believing in myself. And that comes down to some mindset work that I've done. And that also comes down to verbal advice that I've actually been given that says only you can tell the story you want to tell. 

And so that comes with self-trust and recognizing that I have that capability within me to tell the story that I'm trying to tell. And not getting too caught up in, gosh, I'm going to contradict myself because I say you can learn the craft, you can learn about storytelling, you can attend workshops, you can do online, read articles, read books about writing, all kinds of things. But ultimately, you have to take what resonates with you and trust that you know how to tell the story you're trying to tell. There are all these rules and sometimes the rules don't have to apply.

Rick Barron (44:43.228)

There are so many great writers out there. In my mind, I wouldn't sell yourself short. Maybe you think you're not the greatest writer, but I think a lot of the greatest writers didn't get started. They probably just started at the very bottom and worked their way up. 

You know, I don't know what it takes to pull together a book. I mean, that to me is as a daunting task that I sense. And I can only imagine, you know, as you're trying to pull your story together, you must have had times where you come across writer's block. It's like, gosh, why can't I finish this chapter? What am I missing? And when you, if you've, I'm sure you've come across it, but what do you do? Do you kind of just walk away from it for a while, take a hike and then come back and say, OK, now I have it. I know what I need to do.

Suzanne (45:52.674)

Yeah, a couple of things there. Writing a novel takes time and commitment and patience. I don't always have a lot of patience. Freely admit. Something I can analyze about myself. And the idea of writer's block really is not so much about the story, but about self.

And so, what's going on within me that's not allowing me to move forward with this story? Could be a couple of things. One, it could be self-doubt of, I doing this well enough? And that keeps me from moving forward. 

Two, it could be, hold on, I'm thinking. Add that in my mind. I know. This is where we slice and dice. Getting stuck. Writer's block. This is not two. This was gonna be three. Okay, so two. Two, could be... Well, no, hold on, Rick. Let me just gather my thoughts for a second.

Rick Barron (46:46.172)

Take your time, there's no rush.

Suzanne (47:10.594)

Okay.

Suzanne (47:18.232)

Dang, I had something good to say. I know, right? So, I think spending too much time.

Rick Barron (47:21.018)

It will come back.

Suzanne (47:28.788)

The manuscript could be a problem for some. There are always good times to step away and take a little break, just like you suggested. Taking a hike sounds like a perfect idea for me, maybe for somebody else. It's, you know, watching a show they want to watch or spending time with a friend or a loved one, purposefully putting it down for a certain number of days and removing yourself from the project.

And man, I had a really good third point that's just not coming back to me. It's going to happen. I'm going to email you a week from now.

Rick Barron (48:02.244)

It's going to haunt you now, isn't it? Okay. Well, you know, when you are writing your stories, do you ever reference other authors that fall within that realm to kind of get a sense of an idea or inspiration, if you will?

Suzanne (48:21.454)

Mmm. I think a lot of authors, writers do that. I actually go more toward projects that are unlike my own because I don't want to become a copycat in any way. So, I, when I'm writing a psychological horror novel, you'll find me reading romance or nonfiction or something just completely different.

Rick Barron (48:45.884)

How can I take this romantic story and make it very ugly?

Suzanne (48:49.61)

Well, that happens within me. It really does. Can we come back for a second? Because I remembered my other point I wanted to make. Speaking to writer's block. If we get stuck, I'm just going to say we. I'm just going to talk for all writers. If we get stuck, usually it means we're not writing something that excites us. 

So, there's either a self-doubt within or the scene just doesn't excite us. There was a book I read, I can't recall the author, but it's called 2K to 10K. It's a very short book geared toward authors about becoming more efficient in your writing. So, this woman went from writing 2,000 words a day to 10,000 words in a day, which I cannot do, by the way, no matter even if I follow her skills. 

But, she talks about the fact that you must write the scene that you're excited to write because that's what's going to flow. That's what's going to come out. And then the second reason being if you're not excited about it, nobody's going to be excited to read it. So maybe it doesn't even belong. Maybe it doesn't belong in the book. And then another thought with writer's block is really just fleshing out the story. 

And like you said, taking a step away and taking some time to think that's that middle of the book that I talked about that's the hardest to write, it's like, what is really important that needs to happen here? And what are people going to be excited to read and what am I excited to write?

Rick Barron (50:26.748)

Yeah, that's a good insight. And going back to the agents and trying to get the book to sell. cause I know, you know, when you read in the papers, there's even been some movies have gone from one movie company to the next and they've all been rejected and all of a somebody just picks it up and like it becomes a, you know, one of the best movies of all time. What have you ever wondered why or have the agents ever told you why they felt the book didn't make it?

Suzanne (51:02.496)

Yeah, you know, I could speculate all day, but the fact of the matter is a lot of it has to do with luck. And a lot of, like, creative acts, art, we'll call it art, is so subjective. And I decided I could not take that personally that if an editor at a publishing house is making an offer on a book to buy a book, they then have to spend typically the next two years working on that book. And that's what they're committing to. So, the editor who's making the offer to the author through the agent, here's the funnel, really needs to love that book to commit to spending so much time with it and think that it will do well in the market. 

So, the business side of things are specific in that way. There are trends in entertainment. There are trends in books just as there as there are with shows. I'm not as privy to those because no author unless you're who some of these authors are putting out a book a month that's a whole different animal but it's difficult to write to trends because if the trend now is romantasy did you know that that's a that's a genre? 

Romantasy it's romance and fantasy and I began writing a Romantasy right now, which is not my genre, but it would probably take me at least a year to write that book and then sell that book might take another year and then the publication of that book might be two years down the road. So, four years from now, is Romantasy going to be trending? I don't know, maybe not. So, it's hard to write to trends in that way.

Rick Barron (52:53.04)

Does it typically take, like you say, I could probably write that book in a year. I mean, does that really, is that what one is really looking at that when you get into this profession, if you've got a great idea, you know, unless you're so gifted, you can knock it out in one month, so to speak. Why would that take a year? I mean, I guess that's the question.

Suzanne (53:20.258)

Yes, I think everyone writes at different cadences, but realistically, for me at least, to get a first draft written and then there are multiple edits down the road. So for me personally, from idea forming, character development, getting the book on paper or computer and multiple rounds of edits, a year is feasible.

It's taken longer than that for me as well. And for other authors, maybe they knock out a draft in two months and then it goes through a few rounds of edits and they're good to go. But I've seen many popular authors publish in the cadence of about one book a year. And that makes a lot of sense to me that for it to be the correct process and have enough time spent with it, spent with the characters to be unique enough to be, yeah, I don't know. I'm just speculating now. But I think everyone has their different style and process and way of creating. But for the long form, like a novel, in my mind at least and from others I've talked to a year seems appropriate. Yeah.

Rick Barron (54:49.136)

Wow. Now you've provided a lot of insight into what it takes to pull a book together, not to mention the time, the persistence, the patience, as you said.

Looking back at everything that you've done, and I know I've asked you, what did you learn about yourself? But what did you learn along the way about the art of writing?

What did that entail? What comes to mind?

Suzanne (55:25.76)

Well, for me personally, when you say the word art, I think of expression. And I think for myself, I'm just this little girl, Suzanne, who grew up, who had a hard time speaking up for herself and had so much to say, but didn't know if she could be heard. And here I am in my 40s, finally speaking out and being heard and getting to say what I want to say, even if that's through fiction. 

And the act of creating and express it and expressing feel the same to me. And that can come in so many different forms. think we all have it in us through you in creating your podcast, through I've pursued music in the last few years, through visual arts, painters.

Rick Barron (56:26.938)

Yeah, I've seen some of your photos on Instagram, by the way, up on the stage singing.

Suzanne (56:31.598)

Yes, that's a whole different animal too. Yeah, it's time of my life.

Rick Barron (56:35.384)

That's great. That's No, I mean, you say you're in your 40s. I I've shared with you, you I'm in my 70s and I've always, you know, wanted to do something completely different. That's what, you know, got me into podcasting and, you know, thanks to my wife and I'm really enjoying it. I'm having a lot of fun. 

And I think, like you said, you know, when you want to write something good, I know one time I wrote a script for a story and I'm doing the audio and as I'm recording I'm done with the script itself and I just stopped I said this is terrible, this stinks, and I just tore up the script and I started all over again because I just didn't like it just something about it was just not coming out in the manner that I was hoping it would come out. 

So, I can understand and relate to where you're coming from when it comes to writing a book rather than just running a very simple script, so to speak. But, no, it's, I can't imagine the journey that you've taken, but if there was something you wanted to share, excuse me, if there was something you wanted to share with the audience, for those who want to get into this world of writing a book, whether it's fiction or nonfiction.

Suzanne (57:38.293)

Exactly.

Rick Barron (58:01.956)

What piece of advice would you want to throw to others way to make them understand this is the world you're going to walk into? Be prepared. So, what might you?

Suzanne (58:12.558)

Hmm. Yeah. I would advise people to find their community, find your self-trust, and stick with that along the way. And be persistent when people say no. Don't let, that's where the self-trust, I think, comes in, is not letting the no's along the way knock you down. Can't remember who it is that say the only the only way you fail is if you stop. The only failure is stopping.

Rick Barron (58:53.18)

No, and I think to from failure you can learn a lot. Know that sometimes failing is a plus. So, I wouldn't.

Suzanne (58:59.106)

Yes.

Suzanne (59:02.732)

Absolutely. Just because something ends, just because something ends, it doesn't mean that it wasn't valuable. Be it my relationships with my agents, it's kept me on this path. And those relationships I had were valuable too. I learned from them and I learned about the business. I learned about the craft. I learned so much from them. 

And just because that ended doesn't mean that my book career has ended. We could relate that to so many things just because my marriage and it doesn't mean that that wasn't a valuable relationship because it very much was just because but you know one music that anyway I won't go I will get on a tangent I won't do that.

Rick Barron (59:47.164)

That's all right. So where are you now in your career with your book writing?

Suzanne (59:55.886)

Well, I have my first book coming out way ahead in the future of September of 2026, and I'm thrilled to be publishing with that press that I had mentioned, She Writes Press. I'm still seeking an agent for a different book. My, path is not linear. I'm wiggling all around the place and I continue to write. 

And all of these projects have a place in my own heart. I trust and believe they have a place in my career. I'm not sure what that looks like yet. But the stories keep coming and I keep writing them and they will be shareable in some fashion.

Rick Barron (01:00:42.108)

Well, that's great. Congratulations on that. There's that saying, be careful what you wish for because this could be the start of something big. And then you may have to put out a book a month.   

Suzanne (01:00:48.238)

That's right. Right? I don't know if I have that level of, I think that does take a certain talent. I think that does take a certain talent.

Rick Barron (01:01:02.224)

Yeah, it does. Absolutely. Well, listen, I really want to thank you for taking time out of your day to speak with me and to share with everybody what it takes to take that leap into pivoting into writing a book. It's, know, there's pluses and there's minuses. But I think for me, I think the theme I kept hearing was, well, two things, persistence and believe in yourself. If you don't have those two attributes, yeah, it's probably not the road for you to take.

Suzanne (01:01:40.552)

Absolutely. I guess the rewarding factor here is doing something you love. Just the way that that creation, the act of creation fuels you is the most important thing. And if you don't feel that, then maybe it's not meant for you. Yeah, very rewarding. I'm so grateful, Rick, that you took the time to chat with me today and that you asked me on.

Rick Barron(01:02:08.313)

Well, I waited a year and a half for you. It was well worth the wait. Well worth it. So, I'll say to my audience, I really thank all of you for tuning in. And I think we got a lot of insight into the world of writing a novel. To that end, I thank you very much. And we'll talk to you soon.

Rick Barron (01:02:10.618)

Ok, there is one more thing. There is one more chapter to this story.

Suzanne circled back with me the day after our recording asking to incorporate a correct to a question I asked her during our conversation.

She asked me to add this one note of clarity regarding if she had a plan for stopping if she didn't succeed with her writing career. 

She said and I quote:  that for many years her writing coincided with her nutrition profession, and that she will continue to write whether she's working in nutrition or not. 

What fuels her is the act of creating. Whether writing is a side hustle or a full-time job, when she's creating, she's the best version of herself in all other areas of her life." End quote.

I thank Suzanne for that added note. So, once again, thank you for listening and we’ll talk soon.